Refueler
Well-known member
There were quite a few that had sheets to coachroof ... depended on size of jib and the coachroof.
I can even remember odd boats with TWIN sheets ... so you could wing it or sheet in tight ...
UK circum capable <27ft yacht?
- Thread starter Seegull
- Start date
There were quite a few that had sheets to coachroof ... depended on size of jib and the coachroof.
I can even remember odd boats with TWIN sheets ... so you could wing it or sheet in tight ...
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
Ours obviously is sheeted to the coachroof, having a smallish jib. And not to the edge either, the track is about 30cm in, to achieve the necessary sheeting angle. As you say, various interrelated factors dictate the position.clearly a huge overlapper can come back further than the coachroof, and achieve the angle sheeted to the toerail well aft, like a Contessa 32.
Laminar Flow
Well-known member
De facto, last year, I was going to say Summer, but there was none, we circumnavigated the UK from Brittany via Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Shetland, Orkney, Scotland inner & outer Hebrides, NI, Wales, Irish Sea and back to Brittany. We did it in a Colvic Watson 31.5 in about 3.5 months, covering 3000 miles.
I would recommend something with a bit of displacement for comfort and capable of carrying a load. And yes, speed is still important. Reliable weather windows in the Northern parts are in the neighbourhood of three days, after that you're back to checking the tea leaves. If you intend to do this voyage in a two month time frame, you will need to make milage when the weather permits. Strictly speaking and for a "proper circumnavigation", you will have to go around the North of Shetland and down the West coast of Ireland. You will be spending considerable time in port waiting for suitable and safe weather.
I highly recommend something with inside steering or a full dodger/cockpit enclosure and heating. Almost all the Norwegian boats, and they were in the majority in Shetland, had this type of set up, especially the ones with what they call a Mediterranean cockpit, which is everything that doesn't have a built roof over it's head. Just a point, up North we were either the smallest or among the smallest boats, at just over 30'.
To maintain any kind of reasonable time frame, you will have to consider making longer legs. Speed is a benefit. I know this may sound like a bit of an oxymoron, in the context of a Colvic Watson, but we seem to manage a 6 kt average under sail in our, admittedly, pimped model. From Harlingen, NL, to Thyboron, DK, some 250 miles, we averaged 6.4 kt, all under sail. Regardless, you will be doing a fair bit of motoring. Think displacement speed. A recognized, average speed for sailing vessels is 0.9 x sqr root DWL; size matters.
The entire keel discussion is for the birds. I have a hard time buying the "difficult to maneuver in port" arguments for long keels, at least we never had any problems. We draw 4'4'' on a long keel and have legs for drying out. We did not need them once. I'm not sure why superb windward ability is important when cruising long distances. Most everyone seems to motor to weather, unless on a longer passage and a single tack, out in the open and then it is just plain unpleasant.
More important than any keel configuration, is a boat's sail carrying power and her sail area/displacement ratio, to ensure decent passage times and range. A standard rigged Colvic Watson 26 has an SA/D of 10.76. Recommended SA/D for a motorsailer is 13 - 14, if sail is to be considered a primary or equal form of propulsion.
Make sure you have decent ground tackle with a min. of two anchors; there will be areas where there are no ports and in spite of any weather you may want to stay in place. Last Summer, we anchored three times in winds over 45 kts.
Virtually all boats listed to date can, given enough time and suitable weather, do the trip. The question is, how comfortable do you want to be and do you have the time?
When researching our first Scotland/Shetland trip, I tried watching the "Sailing Brothers". After an excruciating episode or two, I gave up. Half the time they had no clue where they were or even what the place was called they were anchored in. For the most part, they seemed to be simply sailing their avatar through the Navionics app and their general commentary was at the level of two less than bright 12 year olds.
Good luck, A.
I would recommend something with a bit of displacement for comfort and capable of carrying a load. And yes, speed is still important. Reliable weather windows in the Northern parts are in the neighbourhood of three days, after that you're back to checking the tea leaves. If you intend to do this voyage in a two month time frame, you will need to make milage when the weather permits. Strictly speaking and for a "proper circumnavigation", you will have to go around the North of Shetland and down the West coast of Ireland. You will be spending considerable time in port waiting for suitable and safe weather.
I highly recommend something with inside steering or a full dodger/cockpit enclosure and heating. Almost all the Norwegian boats, and they were in the majority in Shetland, had this type of set up, especially the ones with what they call a Mediterranean cockpit, which is everything that doesn't have a built roof over it's head. Just a point, up North we were either the smallest or among the smallest boats, at just over 30'.
To maintain any kind of reasonable time frame, you will have to consider making longer legs. Speed is a benefit. I know this may sound like a bit of an oxymoron, in the context of a Colvic Watson, but we seem to manage a 6 kt average under sail in our, admittedly, pimped model. From Harlingen, NL, to Thyboron, DK, some 250 miles, we averaged 6.4 kt, all under sail. Regardless, you will be doing a fair bit of motoring. Think displacement speed. A recognized, average speed for sailing vessels is 0.9 x sqr root DWL; size matters.
The entire keel discussion is for the birds. I have a hard time buying the "difficult to maneuver in port" arguments for long keels, at least we never had any problems. We draw 4'4'' on a long keel and have legs for drying out. We did not need them once. I'm not sure why superb windward ability is important when cruising long distances. Most everyone seems to motor to weather, unless on a longer passage and a single tack, out in the open and then it is just plain unpleasant.
More important than any keel configuration, is a boat's sail carrying power and her sail area/displacement ratio, to ensure decent passage times and range. A standard rigged Colvic Watson 26 has an SA/D of 10.76. Recommended SA/D for a motorsailer is 13 - 14, if sail is to be considered a primary or equal form of propulsion.
Make sure you have decent ground tackle with a min. of two anchors; there will be areas where there are no ports and in spite of any weather you may want to stay in place. Last Summer, we anchored three times in winds over 45 kts.
Virtually all boats listed to date can, given enough time and suitable weather, do the trip. The question is, how comfortable do you want to be and do you have the time?
When researching our first Scotland/Shetland trip, I tried watching the "Sailing Brothers". After an excruciating episode or two, I gave up. Half the time they had no clue where they were or even what the place was called they were anchored in. For the most part, they seemed to be simply sailing their avatar through the Navionics app and their general commentary was at the level of two less than bright 12 year olds.
Good luck, A.
ylop
Well-known member
Lots of good information in your post and I think this was a nice summing up.
I don’t think you were their target audience. I don’t ever remember thinking they were lost although they did mangle many a place name. I remember someone wise saying that if someone mispronounces a word it’s not something to criticise, it generally means they’ve educated themselves through reading rather than being taught. Of course to a native Scot hearing them mangle Gigha is like drawing nails across a blackboard, even most “well bred sailors” from the Solent will have heard it’s correct pronounciation around the sailing club bar etc. BUT that’s exactly what many people found refreshing about them - they were not travel writter novices who jumped on a sailing YouTube bandwagon, and they weren’t middle class sailing types. Add in that they weren’t using bikini shots to jazz up the channel. They had a fair amount of sailing experience, moslty smaller boats, mostly not far from home. That sounds very much like the OP here! They were two guys in their late 30s who had an old boat, worked in low paid delivery work who skimped and saved enough to make the trip. They were also new to YouTube and learning how to make good content.
We stopped regularly watching them once they left the UK, but they’ve now crossed the Atlantic, through Panama and over to Australia. I happened to see them announce this week they were selling the boat to upgrade before they leave Australia. Not bad for a couple of supermarket delivery drivers who apparently didn’t know where they were and didn’t expect to make any real money from YouTube.
doug748
Well-known member
Yes, I have not watched them much but an outstanding piece of sailing. Lovely boat as I remember not just an excellent cruising style but a very striking individual example of a Rival. Very well suited to adventures on that scale.
.
Rhylsailer99
Active member
I think a Cobra 850 bilge keel would also be a good choice. Drying out on a sandy beach is a welcome rest after 12 hrs of rough sea.
Fire99
Well-known member
Nice boats. I looked at these a good few years ago..
Fire99
Well-known member
I'd go for something a little left field (and a rather lively experience). MG Spring 25. Might want plenty of stops as it'll be a bumpy ride but they only draw about 3ft and can dry out. It'd give it a go in one of these..
steve yates
Well-known member
There was a previous forum member, a farmer from the sw I think, did his round britain ( via cally canal) in a 17ft pirate express.
I think for something like this the bilge keel or fin discussions are a complete irrelevance.
No one is going to be taking the ground really for almost the totality of the trip. And even places where its possible, like East Coast mud, most folk will be skipping past all almost all of it. Unless they depart from that area, they will probably do something like Ramsgate to Harwich, or vice versa.
Bilge keels are really used for cheaper drying moorings, to make the cost of boat ownership more reasonable. If that is applicable to you, then definitely look for one. If not, then buy any boat that you take a fancy to and fits your budget and forgetall about keel type.
I think for something like this the bilge keel or fin discussions are a complete irrelevance.
No one is going to be taking the ground really for almost the totality of the trip. And even places where its possible, like East Coast mud, most folk will be skipping past all almost all of it. Unless they depart from that area, they will probably do something like Ramsgate to Harwich, or vice versa.
Bilge keels are really used for cheaper drying moorings, to make the cost of boat ownership more reasonable. If that is applicable to you, then definitely look for one. If not, then buy any boat that you take a fancy to and fits your budget and forgetall about keel type.
Laminar Flow
Well-known member
I commented on the Sailing Brothers blog since it was brought up as an example, inspiration or information source for a circumnavigation of the UK. People can, of course, choose to be inspired of by the apparent social miracle that a couple delivery drivers can sail or that an old Rival floats the right way up. Alas and in spite of my innate tendency to pull for the underdog and to read the Guardian, I was hoping for a bit more substance beyond the staggering insights that the waters up North are wet, sailing boats cleave the waves and that there might be a mountain or two.
To be sure, I was not looking for any help in pronouncing the impenetrable spelling of Gaelic place names; I have surrendered to the inevitable embarrassment when trying. Nor did I need to understand, even before experiencing it, that bikinis up in Scotland and beyond need to cover the entirety of a body and be made of neoprene or polar fleece.
If anyone is seeking inspiration for sailing Northern Waters, I recommend the videos of young French couple in their very, very ancient Dufour. They offer stunning videography and tour maps, blessedly, without any commentary commentary at all. Sailing Tupaia, just beautiful images, without the cluelessness, pathos or bombast of the competition.
It used to be the case that anyone who had managed to drift across the Atlantic thought he had to write a book about it. The contemporary and universally much more accessible variety, is to post a video blog. While some of the former had little literary quality, much of the latter has none of at all.
Kwik Decision
Active member
Apologies if this has already been mentioned, but the op may be interested in this, not least because the yacht used, a Sadler 25, would suit very well.
https://forums.ybw.com/threads/pbo-sailing-around-the-uk-and-ireland-by-roger-oliver.615329/
https://forums.ybw.com/threads/pbo-sailing-around-the-uk-and-ireland-by-roger-oliver.615329/
dunedin
Well-known member
I wonder how many differnt boats go round (southern) Britain each year? Must be at least 50 each year, probably 200 or so annually? Loads of different boats do it successfully. It’s the crew - and having the time - that matters most.
Refueler
Well-known member
True .... its no good really highlighting a boat for the job as each owners wants are different ... many different boats do it in all sorts of sizes ...
I would be Ok to do it in my 25ft Motor Sailer ... I'd be OK to do it in 38ft Cruiser Racer .. the difference would be the Passage Planning and stops ...
Tippy2024
Member
I sailed a Wayfarer, and have had two friends who bravely sailed the Channel in similar boats. Admittedly, they took good weather windows.
But nonetheless, does size really matter? I intend to hop around most of the UK ( during our balmy sailing season) in a sleek Hurley 24/70 Fin or worthy Westerly Pageant. Still waiting to pounce on my new old boat tbh.
I dont fear sailing in the UK Wet & Wintertime in a smaller boat that much, over being very very cold and very very wet. Which I cannot abide.
But nonetheless, does size really matter? I intend to hop around most of the UK ( during our balmy sailing season) in a sleek Hurley 24/70 Fin or worthy Westerly Pageant. Still waiting to pounce on my new old boat tbh.
I dont fear sailing in the UK Wet & Wintertime in a smaller boat that much, over being very very cold and very very wet. Which I cannot abide.
Snowgoose-1
Well-known member
Before the internet, it was not uncommon to be approached at the Earls Court boat show by someone who wanted you to buy their book as above. Having read and enjoyed many books from the library , I felt rather sorry for them. No doubt it was an achievement and they deserved some kind of recognition and probably also money they had put into the book. It was never easy to have to walk away without a purchase after they had you for about 10 minutes giving you the high's and low's.
Fire99
Well-known member
A touch harsh.. Certainly it seems a lot more people make videos than used to write books but there's insight into people's adventures that people couldn't dream of knowing about 30 years ago.
Metalicmike
Active member
The more important question is how tall and agile are you.
Minerva
Well-known member
Round the UK is a two month window? Of all the boats mentioned so far, I have to admit an Evolution 26 on a good trailer sounds almost ideal.
Tow it to Falmouth for a potter there for a few days/ week possibly including out to the Scillies. Back on its trailer up the the Menai straights for a few days - possibly over to Dublin for a Guiness
Back on its trailer again and to Craobh then spend 6 weeks exploring the Hebrides. Get to dry out on a many a great beach.
Back on the trailer again and stop off for at the Farne islands on way back south for a weekend to complete all the best bits.
Tow it to Falmouth for a potter there for a few days/ week possibly including out to the Scillies. Back on its trailer up the the Menai straights for a few days - possibly over to Dublin for a Guiness
Back on its trailer again and to Craobh then spend 6 weeks exploring the Hebrides. Get to dry out on a many a great beach.
Back on the trailer again and stop off for at the Farne islands on way back south for a weekend to complete all the best bits.
mrming
Well-known member
That's a nice idea. Would negate any claim about having sailed around the UK, but for the short time window, could lead to a much more interesting experience.
Supertramp
Well-known member
An interesting idea and you would get some good quality bits. The stress of trailing, setting up, parking would more than offset bouncing around off headlands and finding places to stop for me!
All down to how you want to sail. A sporty sail with crew or a more gentle explore? Two months is tight - I spent that in N Ireland/Scotland only last year.
It's really not about the boat but rather how you want to do it.