Turn it off, please

[johnphilip]

AIS
The best safety addition for a boat without radar to monitor shipping is being made a nonsense by small boat transmissions.

On a summer day my plotter screen has so many AIS targets that often navigation marks and soundings are obscured. The alarm has to be turned off to preserve sanity and the system is soon going to have to be disabled to enable normal navigation.

The ability to transmit your position to make ships aware of your existance is terrific, WHEN YOU NEED IT.
Small boat transmitters however would be so much more effective if ONLY activated in relevant situations, generally much less crowded, at night, crossing shipping lanes or in lonely seas where ships lookouts are likely to be less vigilant and obviously in fog.

By all means keep receiving AIS and monitor shipping but is it just self importance that requires the constant transmission?

Do these combined sets even have the ability to receive but turn off the outgoing signal?

Surely ships are much less likely to filter out Class B signals if they are not swamped by them.

We turn on navigation lights when we need them, is it too difficult to treat AIS the same way?
If this was adopted by the RYA in their syllabus word would start to spread, any other suggestions?

 

[Talulah]

AIS
Do these combined sets even have the ability to receive but turn off the outgoing signal?

Many do. Racers want to receive but not transmit so go in to stealth mode.
A lot of people leave their AIS tranmitters on when not on board. It enables them to keep an eye on their pride and joy online whilst in the office.

 

[Otter]

I agree with the OP but you've more chance of finding a cheap marina in the Solent than people turning off AIS transmitters. In crowded areas it's now less safe to have an AIS receiver for the reasons you state. It's vanity that means they're left on and no wonder ships filter out the class B signals. Now that class A sets are becoming cheaper - only twice the cost of class B transmitters now - people will start 'upgrading' to those and soon the whole system will be clogged up and screens even more cluttered. At some point a decision will be made to more tightly regulate it but that's years down the line.

 

[oldvarnish]

This is interesting.

After the introduction of DSC, we've heard of people switching off the VHFs because they couldn't stand the constant alarms.

Now the same is happening with AIS

Trend?

 

[Mudisox]

This is interesting.

After the introduction of DSC, we've heard of people switching off the VHFs because they couldn't stand the constant alarms.

Now the same is happening with AIS

Trend?

+1 Fed up with all this information from instruments that blur the need to look out and up.

 

[GHA]

This is interesting.

After the introduction of DSC, we've heard of people switching off the VHFs because they couldn't stand the constant alarms.

Now the same is happening with AIS

Trend?

Depends where you sail. As you know, though some might not, there's a whole world outside the solent, with not so many boats
Occasional localized problem maybe.

 

[prv]

On a summer day my plotter screen has so many AIS targets that often navigation marks and soundings are obscured.

I can't imagine you're in the middle of the Channel, then, or crossing the North Sea - there wouldn't be so many leisure vessels in close proximity. Are you, perchance, in a very popular yachting area? Where ships follow well-known tracks into port, and are clearly visible as they enter the area? Why, then, do you need AIS in the first place? The only use I can think of is in fog, and I bet there aren't so many Class B transmitters out and about in those conditions.

Just turn the damn thing - the receiver - off in the Solent!

Pete

 

[ianfr]

I can't imagine you're in the middle of the Channel, then, or crossing the North Sea - there wouldn't be so many leisure vessels in close proximity. Are you, perchance, in a very popular yachting area? Where ships follow well-known tracks into port, and are clearly visible as they enter the area? Why, then, do you need AIS in the first place? The only use I can think of is in fog, and I bet there aren't so many Class B transmitters out and about in those conditions.

Just turn the damn thing - the receiver - off in the Solent!


Pete

I can't comment about the solent except to agree that yachts should turn off the transponder unless needed. The receiver however is a truly useful tool when crossing the channel. Earlier this year we were presented with 4 ships line abreast heading towards us, a quick flip through them with the ais readouts indicated that none were a problem, but the 5th one a couple of miles behind was going to meet us at less than 0.1 of a mile. Similar thing on the return journey two weeks later with slightly poorer visibility. I am not sure that I would want to cross without it.

So: Just turn the damn thing - the receiver - off in the Solent! +1

Actually last weekend it was cluttered coming out of the Crouch, in perfect visibility, so I cannot see why yachts needed to transmit apart from the "look at me I have this expensive toy" If I was to buy a Transponder, the only time it would be set to transmit would be crossing the channel or a major TSS.

Regards

Ian & Jo

 

[LittleShip]

I moved to Scotland this year only to find that the Royal Navy have great AIS .......

It's a rib with four guys on that come along side to warn you about the great big island that's moving down the Clyde, and, it didn't cost me a penny to install.

Tom

 

[tidclacy]

+1 Fed up with all this information from instruments that blur the need to look out and up.

+1 Mark one eyeball. Remember once crewing for a skipper coming into the Crouch ( which I know well ) He popped below to check his chart plotter and by the time he had come back up to tell me to change course to avoid a spit I had already done so and avoided going aground. Big huge north cardinal quite apparent!

 

[kyleview]

Could not agree more re constant AIS transmission from yachts - have seen this coming for the last 6 years and even up here in Scotland it's starting to become a real pain. I would like to have the transmit capability on my AIS the odd time (like 1/2 per year) but have refrained from upgrading in case I another member of the "cluttering" class.

 

[lenseman]

AIS
The best safety addition for a boat without radar to monitor shipping is being made a nonsense by small boat transmissions. . . . . . any other suggestions?

Yup, learn to sail without having to look at your AIS screen or chart plotter. If you don't like them on your screen, you don't have to look at them.

It will be far easier for you to switch off rather then try and get Sunsail to turn all their sailing boats to turn theirs off.



.

 

[BrianH]

This subject has been aired on this forum many times. It is not just a Solent or UK problem; it is happening everywhere and especially where I sail, the Adriatic, where AIS Class B for leisure boating is booming.

I now have to turn off the CPA alarms entirely on my OCPN display, putting me in very real danger from the cowboy drivers of fast ferries that ply my cruising waters and who can really kill me - unlike all the class B yachts that are constantly generating the alarms.

With the fast ferries I have had two near misses; one I had to call on channel 16 when only 1.1 NM away and headed straight at me with a closing speed of 35 knots, before he swerved away. At least I had the ship's name from the AIS report to call with. But that was a few years ago and I first noticed him because of the alarm, which I now would not get.

 

[Salty John]

The problem with 'turn it off', clearly the sensible thing to do, is that it contravenes Colregs:

7. Risk of Collision
Vessels must use all available means to determine the risk of a collision, including the use of radar (if available) to get early warning of the risk of collision by radar plotting or equivalent systematic observation of detected objects. (e.g. ARPA, AIS).

If you've got it you have to use it. Colregs needs to be amended to accommodate this real problem of screen clutter.

 

[Talulah]

The problem with 'turn it off', clearly the sensible thing to do, is that it contravenes Colregs:

7. Risk of Collision
Vessels must use all available means to determine the risk of a collision, including the use of radar (if available) to get early warning of the risk of collision by radar plotting or equivalent systematic observation of detected objects. (e.g. ARPA, AIS).

If you've got it you have to use it. Colregs needs to be amended to accommodate this real problem of screen clutter.

Well it's not quite what it sais.
"Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision."

The important bit you missed was "appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions"
So just because you have it doesn't mean you have to use it.

Source: http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/msn_1781-2.pdf

 

[pmagowan]

It is only a pain up here in Scotland when entering ports as all the 'parked' boats with it force an alarm when you need your full plotter screen for some tricky approaches. Not a major concern (you should know what you are doing without plotter) but a PITA. Otherwise it is quite nice to know who is passing you etc since dodgers are less common nowadays.

 

[30boat]

A friend of mine was saying how he regretted not having installed an emitting AIS se instead of the normal one.I told him what's being said on this thread.In no time everybody will own an emitting set and it'll be caos.

 

[Salty John]

Well it's not quite what it sais.
"Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision."

The important bit you missed was "appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions"
So just because you have it doesn't mean you have to use it.


Source: http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/msn_1781-2.pdf

My copy of the regs shows it exactly as I copied it. The reference you make is higher up in section 5:

5. Look-out
Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.

There are obviously different versions of the Colregs available.

 

[Talulah]

My copy of the regs shows it exactly as I copied it. The reference you make is higher up in section 5:

5. Look-out
Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.

There are obviously different versions of the Colregs available.

Rule 5 "Look Out" and Rule 7 "Risk of collision" both make similar conditions about use of "all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions".
The Collision Regs in my link supersedes M1642
"This notice takes immediate effect and supersedes MSN M.1642/COLREG 1"
So what version does your source refer to? Is it a direct copy of the col regs or a "selected highlights" as often quoted on numerous things? However once you read the actual legislation you find it's not quite as represented. Not picking at you but often the devil is in the detail.

 

[Salty John]

The devil is, indeed, in the detail. Unfortunately the devil is a lawyer and would probably argue that because a collision occurred the prevailing conditions required the use of all available means.
I know there have been prosecutions in the USA, (probably where my copy of the regs came from), in which the fact that radar was available but not used was an issue.