Turkey - Blue Card system for black and grey waste

[Borden]

We are moored for the winter 12/13 in Didim Marina. I've just received and email from the marina office, the relevant text is copied below (their spelling). It's interesting/worrying that the scope of the Blue Card area is stated as the Mulga and Antalya zones which seems to expand the area I believed the Blue card system covered.

Dear Guests,Within the context of preventing marine pollution activities please kindly find enclosed declarations about the Blue Card applications which is implemented in Mugla and Antalya zone.As it is seen from the attachments it is quitely important that the guests cruising on this zone need to provide and swipe this card before/after their cruises. Otherwise it will be taken legal action against them.

Unfortunately our marina is not able to give this card right now however we are in a struggle to settle up the blue card system in D-Marin Didim.

I emailed Didim marina to see if they could give me more precise details of the coverage of the Blue card system.

Here is my question to Didim marina office:

Will you provide precise details of the area of coast covered by the Blue card system. For example you mention that Bodrum is included but what about the coast to the north of Bodrum? Does the Blue card area cover the coastal area near to Bagarasi, Gundogan, Yalikavak, Geris?
And here is their rather worrying reply received a few minutes ago.

Blue card area cover Bagarası,Gundogan,Yalikavak and Geris.

Now that's not what I wanted to hear. In the light of this I'm going to be moving back to the Greek islands next season.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Yes. There's a nice catch 22 within the system.

1. Pollution is defined as discharge of grey or black water.
2. Pollution is not permitted in Turkish territorial waters.
3. To leave Turkish territorial waters, you must "book out"
4. If you didn't book out, you stayed within Territorial waters
5. If nothing to pump out, you must have dumped it
6. In Turkish waters, illegally.

Unless, of course, you have a most unusual metabolism.

There is good data available arguing that discharge of sewage by leisure craft (when a mile or more offshore under way) has insignificant impact, or is even beneficial to marine life, compared to other sources of "pollution" (river outflows, commercial traffic).

 

[akyaka]

Will you provide precise details of the area of coast covered by the Blue card system. For example you mention that Bodrum is included but what about the coast to the north of Bodrum? Does the Blue card area cover the coastal area near to Bagarasi, Gundogan, Yalikavak, Geris?
And here is their rather worrying reply received a few minutes ago.

Blue card area cover Bagarası,Gundogan,Yalikavak and Geris.

Well they are in Mugla Province.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Yes. There's a nice catch 22 within the system.

1. Pollution is defined as discharge of grey or black water.
2. Pollution is not permitted in Turkish territorial waters.
3. To leave Turkish territorial waters, you must "book out"
4. If you didn't book out, you stayed within Territorial waters
5. If nothing to pump out, you must have dumped it
6. In Turkish waters, illegally.

Unless, of course, you have a most unusual metabolism.

There is good data available arguing that discharge of sewage by leisure craft (when a mile or more offshore under way) has insignificant impact, or is even beneficial to marine life, compared to other sources of "pollution" (river outflows, commercial traffic).

Jim, I would go so far as to say that sewage discharged from a holding tank (which inevitably suffer from Anaerobic action) is far worse than discharging fresh sewage direct. The result of discharging well tanked sewage which is days old, is to poison the fish. There is a good argument therefore not to use holding tanks.

So how should this be put into sensible action?

Easy actions like - never discharge loo paper ever.
Always do ablutions when on the move (the boat I mean)
Empty the tank once a day
Install an oxygenator in the tank - an air circulation pump a bit like a gold fish tank. Tek Tanks have started to market one.

We WERE considering going to Turkey next year.........

 

[MASH]

Usual ill-considered Turkish regulation. The problem that needed to be solved was nothing to do with poisoning fish, there are precious few left, it was the revolting scum of filth that accumulated in many anchorages and was in my experience invariably associated solely with the arrival of gulets or grockle boats. I never saw evidence that yachts were pumping out in anchorages, and almost never saw that gulets weren't. (well, not pumping out because I doubt any had holding tanks, just discharging overboard).

My boat had a tank but no way of getting it pumped out by a shore-based facility so the marina just lent me a blue card with a pump-out on it so I could get a Transit Log. A sham.

And as they were in the habit of emptying the honey truck straight into the harbour it seemed even more unreasonable.

Discharging holding tanks 3 miles offshore is going to do precisely no damage at all imho, it is the anchorages that needed protection, and as most of the local towns discharge straight into the sea I fail to see how penalising yachts is going to make any difference at all.

Anyway, if you're that worried about pumping anaerobic sludge just go for a swim...

 

[affinite]

We are ...

Jim, I would go so far as to say that sewage discharged from a holding tank (which inevitably suffer from Anaerobic action) is far worse than discharging fresh sewage direct. The result of discharging well tanked sewage which is days old, is to poison the fish. There is a good argument therefore not to use holding tanks.

So how should this be put into sensible action?

Easy actions like - never discharge loo paper ever.
Always do ablutions when on the move (the boat I mean)
Empty the tank once a day
Install an oxygenator in the tank - an air circulation pump a bit like a gold fish tank. Tek Tanks have started to market one.

We WERE considering going to Turkey next year.........

We ARE going to Turkey next year. We dipped in this year for a couple of weeks with no grey water tank, no deck pump-out fitting and no problems. We bought a blue card in Didim Turgutreis but never used it. (Went into 2 other marinas in Mugla but werent asked for it)
We do not intend to visit marinas (cant afford the prices) except to check in and out so as per many previous threads/posts I think that provided you keep your head down and behave responsibly/discretely re waste water disposal then unlikely to have problems.
BTW last year we did not see any Gulets dumping waste but did see a big Italian motor yacht anchored just 100m from the beach/harbour at Palamut surrounded by a huge sh*t slick around it. - pretty disgusting behaviour I thought.

 

[MASH]

I think the potential problem is that when you check out they will want to see a Blue Card with a pump out on it. No pump out = assumption that you discharged it at sea. QED.

This was a "problem" for me as the boat had been unused for a year and I wanted to check out straight into Greek waters but hadn't done a pump out. How could I? The tank was as empty as it has been the previous year. Solution, marina lends you a "used" blue card, paperwork goes through unimpeded, bit without that card recording your one pumpout not so easy. You won't get checked out and may land a fine. No doubt depends on how officious the Harbour Master (or your agent) is being that day.

 

[Sybaris]

I think that provided you keep your head down and behave responsibly/discretely re waste water disposal then unlikely to have problems.

Probably, but; We checked out from Marmaris last week (not cheap by the way as you have to use and agent with prices ranging from 40€ - 125€ for a simple checkout i.e. not transit log cost etc.) and the agents I asked said that the blue card would be checked by the harbour master office and needed a "virtual pumpout" supplied by most marinas. The virtual pumpout means that your card is swiped so that it appears to the harbour master as if you have done a real pumpout.

So what I am trying to say is that if they want to get tough they can get really strict during checkout. My guess is that they will introduce some kind of fine so that if you fail to have a proper pumpout they will charge you an extra 1 million € or so at checkout.

Cheers,
Per

 

[tonybannister]

Jim can I clarify one point. You say Turkish territorial waters but as I understand it this scheme only applies to Mugla as yet. So if a boat sailed north to Didim or Kusadasi they could check out of Turkey with no blue card requirement. Am I correct ?

 

[Marsupial]

The scheme has been extended to include not only the Mugla region but also Antalya, you should be OK going north at the moment but they are extending north "soon".

 

[jimbaerselman]

Jim can I clarify one point. You say Turkish territorial waters but as I understand it this scheme only applies to Mugla as yet. So if a boat sailed north to Didim or Kusadasi they could check out of Turkey with no blue card requirement. Am I correct ?

Tony,
The intention is to test the system in Mugla region, then extend them to other Turkish waters - hopefully after feedback to discover what improvements may be needed. I'm not aware that cards are checked north of Mugla yet - but I've no direct feedback to check that.

Anyone checked out north of Mugla recently?

 

[affinite]

I was just about (today) to book some flights to/from turkey and storage at Yat Lift. Recent threads re Blue card and Yat Lift have caused a rethink ... Maybee stay in the Dodec
Cruising situation re Turkey is getting very tiresome

 

[Squeaky]

Good afternoon:

jimbaerselman:The intention is to test the system in Mugla region, then extend them to other Turkish waters - hopefully after feedback to discover what improvements may be needed.

I doubt it there was ever any intention behind the "blue card" scheme except to make some easy money for a group from the Fethiye area. In my opinion those behind the original idea were the same bunch of "do gooders" who forced the movement of a large house boat which was permanently moored in one of the Fethiye bays - it was later moored at Albatros Marina in Marmaris for a while and I don't know where it eventually ended up. I believe that they were so overcome with their own success in this effort that one of the gang suddenly asked the others a rhetorical question such as "what about the gulets, motorboats and yachts?" which led to further discussion and the hatching of a plan which morphed into the "blue card" system. Those who put this system to the Mugla governor were not connected to any official institution and were more motivated by their vision of making a real killing by charging 70 euros for the blue card and pump outs than by their legitimate concern for the environment.

All the details seems to have been lost in the haze of time (and computer crashes) but the governor didn't buy their scheme at first and demanded further investigation only to have the same group return 14 days later with further research prompting the governor to agree and sign the decree - the fact that none of the marinas had even heard of this group or their supposed research indicates, to me, that their research involved only their buddies at the local cay shop and no one that might have put forward anything contradictory to their initial claims of its feasibility or for the benefits this scheme would provide.

When the scheme was first publicized I was invited to appear on a local TV program which included the managers of two local marinas who denied having ever heard of the group or having ever having been consulted as to the feasibility of the plan during the time it was supposedly being researched. One would have thought that if the backers were really interested in producing a workable scheme that they would have consulted such people but no, in my opinion, their interest was more in the money that could be made for themselves.

One of the "big shots" from the group was invited to explain the scheme at a meeting of clients in Netsel (Tea and Talk) and claimed they had invested over $250,000 in software and equipment to support the scheme which is why the "blue cards" would cost 70 Euros. He had lots of rosy reports of the availability of "pump out" stations around the coast and what action the local authorities were going to take to prevent local villages from discharging sewerage into the sea.

He was decidedly short of details as to how 30 and 40 year old yachts could be modified to include the tankage required or how gulets and charter yachts would pump out during "turn arounds". Actually reminded me of a "used car saleman" hi-liting the positives and skimming over the negatives.

A newly painted but old fishing boat appeared in Netsel emblazoned with lots of their advertisements and logos shortly afterwards but that seems to have disappeared over the past year - around the time that official interest in this scheme decreased.

About the only result of this scheme as been that several marinas have made a lot of unearned money (M Yat Marina claim to have sold 1,000 cards at 20 Euros or TL which means 20,000 Euros or 20,000 TL - even in lira this is still a lot of money - £8,500 in real money or the monthly wage for 25 bar staff).

The end result has been a regulation which will hang around for years which did not achieve the aim simply because it was a "hair brained" idea in the first place yet no one will have the interest or "balls" to declare it dead and buried.

Of course, cruising yachtsmen will continue to debate it for years to come keeping it on the front burner and causing a lot of unnecessary worry and concern for those interested in "doing the right thing" and avoiding trouble with the authorities.

Also it will give some harbor masters who feel the need to demonstrate the power behind their lofty titles an excuse to harass innocent citizens even if their demand for a "blue card" showing at least one pump out is easily circumvented by cooperative marinas staff.

Okay, rant over - I feel much better already.

Squeaky

 

[Carmel2]

Just to play devil's advocate........... How would this go down? Just about everywhere seems to have a restaurant quay with facilities, if you could prove you have used one of these most if not all nights ( ie meal receipt or the nice boat service charge) What could the coastguard do?

 

[Squeaky]

Good afternoon:

Carmel2 - Your concern is the sort that this scheme as produced as I have not heard of any real interest being shown by the Coast Guard in the Blue Card. Yes, some harbour masters who seem to want to be officious are interested but not the Coast Guard.

Given a chance I think and sincerely hope this whole Blue Card nonsense will die a natural death but as mentioned it will be debated ad infinitem (forevermore) amongst yachtsmen trying to do the "right thing" and stay out of trouble.

Cheers

Squeaky

 

[Chris_Robb]

I was just about (today) to book some flights to/from turkey and storage at Yat Lift. Recent threads re Blue card and Yat Lift have caused a rethink ... Maybee stay in the Dodec
Cruising situation re Turkey is getting very tiresome

However, as squeaky says, pay lip service to it and you won't have a problem.

Well thats what I hope, or its off to Leros instead for next year.

We probably spend about as much time as you on the water each year, so need really to take an annual berth.

If you do go, give me some feed back on the hassle factor of entry etc etc.

Chris