Trapeze harness

Seajet

Seajet

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Well, if DanCrane can ask about Osprey dinghies here, I hope I can ask about bits for one...

I have a trapeze harness which, for reasons you really don't want to know or I'd bore you to death with aeroplane talk, now lacks the rubber 'pip' which normally goes opposite the trapeze hook on said harness; I could try to replicate something, but if anyone here has any sources or ideas I'd be very grateful.

Andy
 
The harness happens to be an Alpha Sails one, but the baseplate the hook is on is pretty standard; the reason for the rubber 'pip' is to stop the trapeze ring whatever getting bounced out of the hook ( I'm used to trapezing & know weight should be on it, trust me we're talking about waves etc, it is essential ) with unfortunate results.
 
I can assure you that you do not need a rubber pip to keep the ring in place. When ever I have had a trapeze harness with one fitted it's the first thing to get removed. If you are trapezing properly and the harness is fitted/adjusted properly you will not get bounced out...even in big waves. Please see photo evidence of me and my crew sailing a 12' skiff in big breeze, there is no dinghy that gives a bouncier ride than a 12, and thats twin wire.

The pip also prevents wire to wire tacks and gybes. Properly set up, I can have the tiller in my back hand, take the trap handle in my forward hand, lift my hips and the bungee will pull the ring off the hook ready for the manoevre. I also know of a few 18 bowmen who do the same on the bearaway, so if you pitchpole they are already off the wire and won't end up in such a mess!

2601816582_be3300f907.jpg
 
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Iain C said:
I can assure you that you do not need a rubber pip to keep the ring in place. When ever I have had a trapeze harness with one fitted it's the first thing to get removed. If you are trapezing properly and the harness is fitted/adjusted properly you will not get bounced out...even in big waves. Please see photo evidence of me and my crew sailing a 12' skiff in big breeze, there is no dinghy that gives a bouncier ride than a 12, and thats twin wire.

The pip also prevents wire to wire tacks and gybes. Properly set up, I can have the tiller in my back hand, take the trap handle in my forward hand, lift my hips and the bungee will pull the ring off the hook ready for the manoevre. I also know of a few 18 bowmen who do the same on the bearaway, so if you pitchpole they are already off the wire and won't end up in such a mess!

2601816582_be3300f907.jpg
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Iain,

thanks very much but I've trapezed on dinghies since 1974, summer & winter; I know the value of the rubber pip, especially in waves, having sailed dinghies offshore a fair bit and sailed my Osprey relatively long distances.

My previous trapeze harness got used for aviation photography purposes necessitating the removal of the rubber bit, but I can assure you the rubber pip is nigh on essential when trapezing seriously; I tried wire to wire but it went out many years ago, I suppose some 'Jamie Dayglo' boats which apparently don't mind dragging their transom around may still use it ! :)
 
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Erm, wire to wire is when you go out on the handle and hook on (or get your crew to hook you on if you are the driver) afterwards. You also ping your hook off before coming into the boat for a corner. I don't think a technique like that goes "out of fashion" and I would not call an 12/18 or 49er a girls boat!

Well, even as an ex national champion I feel I will have to bow to your knowledge of trapeze pips...I don't know how I've stayed attached to boats without one all this time! ;)

Edit...you are talking about continuous trapeze systems aren't you. That is very different to "wire to wire" which is a technique, not a system...
 
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Iain,

in my day 'wire to wire' and 'continuous' were the same thing re. trapeze set-ups, and I set this sort of kit up on dinghies I sailed or owned such as Fireballs and Int 14's etc and rather a lot of other racing dinghies I helmed or crewed as a try-out, also my earlier Scorpion which we'd fitted with a trapeze for a laugh as the crew was light, it then planed to windward.

I'm rather familiar with 'trapezing techniques' and have sailed with or against National Champions of various clases, I have yet to be impressed by all but a few as having a clue about common sense or seamanship, and if you don't understand the use of the rubber pip on a harness I despair, obviously you haven't trapezed in waves at high speed, or tried instructing newbie crew on the trapeze ?!
 
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Seajet said:
Iain,

in my day 'wire to wire' and 'continuous' were the same thing re. trapeze set-ups, and I set this sort of kit up on dinghies I sailed or owned such as Fireballs and Int 14's etc and rather a lot of other racing dinghies I helmed or crewed as a try-out, also my earlier Scorpion which we'd fitted with a trapeze for a laugh as the crew was light, it then planed to windward.

I'm rather familiar with 'trapezing techniques' and have sailed with or against National Champions of various clases, I have yet to be impressed by all but a few as having a clue about common sense or seamanship, and if you don't understand the use of the rubber pip on a harness I despair, obviously you haven't trapezed in waves at high speed, or tried instructing newbie crew on the trapeze ?!
Click to expand...

Sorry, can't agree!
The rest of the world is against you!
However, I think the hooks are made by Seasure (well mine is!), they would probably send you a rubber pip.
If not try one of the big chandlers like Pinnel and Bax or Northampton Sailboats, they probably have them.
 
When I raced dinghies we and the other crews did indeed refer to 'continuous ' trapeze systems as 'wire to wire', maybe it was a slang term we used but those races were a winter series ( Chichester Snowflake ) so encompassed people from a lot of other clubs.

I'd love to have the confidence to say 'the whole world agreed with me' or was against the other person on a point of discussion among a few people about a small piece of dinghy kit...:)

Thanks for the 'tip about the pip' though !
 
Not intended too seriously, obviously one person agrees with you and designs/designed trapeze hooks for Seasure :-)

You could try using the congealed bit of silicone rubber that forms in the nozzle of the tube I suppose!
 
Seajet said:
Iain,

I'm rather familiar with 'trapezing techniques' and have sailed with or against National Champions of various clases, I have yet to be impressed by all but a few as having a clue about common sense or seamanship, and if you don't understand the use of the rubber pip on a harness I despair, obviously you haven't trapezed in waves at high speed, or tried instructing newbie crew on the trapeze ?!
Click to expand...

I'm sorry that you despair over my lack of seamanship and my lack of understanding on the use of the rubber pip. One day I'll have to try something really fast in some waves, oh, a bit like this shot of me steering an 18 off an erm, wave, at a world championships in 2009. I'm sure if we'd known about trapeze pips we could have got away without all that silly leg locking and foot loop nonsese that we seem to be doing instead. How we and the rest of the fleet all stayed attached for the landings without a pip I'll never know! The ONLY way you will come off your hook is if it is bent, if your harness does not fit properly and the hook is rotating upwards, or if you are hanging onto the handle when you shouldn't be and taking some of the weight off the trap line.

7357673474_aef15b4694.jpg


FWIW teaching someone to wire with a pip makes it more difficult to hook and unhook, and they get into bad habits hanging onto the handle rather than getting their weight on the wire properly and getting the trap line taut. Anyway, time to duck out of this discussion as clearly I'm wrong, however P&B should be able to help you or try the manufacturer of the hook itself. Or try the Y&Y forum, I dare say someone there might have a spare one they've removed from their own harness!
 
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Seajet said:
Iain,

I'm rather familiar with 'trapezing techniques' and have sailed with or against National Champions of various clases, I have yet to be impressed by all but a few as having a clue about common sense or seamanship, and if you don't understand the use of the rubber pip on a harness I despair, obviously you haven't trapezed in waves at high speed, or tried instructing newbie crew on the trapeze ?!
Click to expand...

Tee Hee :D

Think Iain C's credentials suggest a bt of trapeze experience in waves and at speeds that make Fireball etc pedestrian
The world has moved on in high speed sailing, though I would tend to agree for oldies not racing the rubber retainer may give a feeling of more security (even if not the case for serious racing)
 
I know our comments have been a bit "tongue in cheek" but there is also a more important reason for not having the rubber tang there. It's one of safety.

What the tang does is to stop the ring falling out of the hook, but in reality that's exactly what you want it to do. Otherwise you could find yourself un-knowingly still attahced when the boat tacks or gybes, trapping you under the rig when it capsizes. Then you have the added problem that as you try to swim out from under the rig, the trapeze elastic keeps pulling you back. Combine this with a bouyancy aid that stops you swimming down and you have a really potential drowning scenario on your hands.
 
dunedin said:
Tee Hee :D

Think Iain C's credentials suggest a bt of trapeze experience in waves and at speeds that make Fireball etc pedestrian
The world has moved on in high speed sailing, though I would tend to agree for oldies not racing the rubber retainer may give a feeling of more security (even if not the case for serious racing)
Click to expand...

I have trapezed rather a lot since the age of 14 - I'm 50 now.

I may not have dayglo sunblock but I've owned or crewed seriously, off the top of my head,

Int 14 twin wire

Int 14 single wire 1970's

Int 14 single wire 1960's

505

Dart 18

Osprey

Scorpion with adapted out of class trapeze

Fireball

Anderson 22 with adapted wire...

I think I know better than 'hanging on the handle' - I reckon trapezing when done correctly is far more comfortable than hiking with toe straps - and racing in my experience with other owners and crews most certainly does not have any relationship at all with seamanship !

Being a 'Jaimie' racing for short bursts with blonde highlights and talking loudly does not impress me...:rolleyes:

BobC,

I ve trapezed summer & winter, and never had a problem getting off the wire, just a simple hand down chopping motion.

I was asking about restoring a trapeze harness to its' normal use after I used it a while ago to go out of the top of a DH Dove aircraft at 150 knots, so had wirelocked it for the rope to my chum in the cabin; now I am trying to teach a keen novice about trapezing in a very short time period before a charity event.

I and the rest of the world can well do without egotistical prats who have a very narrow focus...
 
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