Transas iSailor is no more! It's now Warsila iSailor and it's not all good.

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Piddy

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What a disappointment - after years of getting free updates ( free as in paid for when buying a portfolio), Wartsila the new owners of Transas iSailor nav app have started off well by now charging for chart updates. No warning, just a new policy.

Very disappointing for such a handy app.
 
Shame really but not surprised.

It's the model all the Nav apps seem to be following now.

Looked at iNavX which is on at £14.99 (Black Friday deal!) but I can't find the cost of the charts and whether they are a subscription model for updates. I'm not forking out £14.99 to find the charts etc cost a bomb.

Just downloaded (free) TZ iBoat (Nobeltec) - charts can be Vector or Raster but they are quite pricey but cover quite large areas. E.g. Vector chart NW Europe - Hamburg to N.Spain border includes UK coast bordering Channel & N.Sea and all the continental coast. Cost £66.99 1st year then £33.99 the following years. But it doesn't have the capability to overlay AIS like iSailor.
 
Not too impressed with iSailor. I got iSailor for the AIS overlay. In May 2017 I reported a missing buoy on their chart of Stornoway and received the following reply:

"It is strange but we never have had BA chart 2529 for Stornaway [sic] in our collection.
Seems we have just missed it. That’s why there are no buoys in this area, our chart is too small scale chart.
There is official UKHO ENC cell for this area, which is based on BA chart 2529 and we will include it into our collection ASAP.
Will be definitely available on the next WF (from July 2017)"

Made me wonder what other charts they have failed to use.

I have since bought an android tablet and installed OpenCPN and Marine Navigator, both of which have AIS overlay. I have noticed that iSailor is much slower at picking up AIS targets than the other two. OpenCPN can be almost instantaneous. (All three using the same data from a Quark AIS receiver (excellent kit)). This could be down to the iPad that iSailor is on, but still...
 
I used to recommend iSailor unreservably, and had purchased a number of charts both on iOS and Android. Their charts were expensive, but generally good... but the software was not intuitive. However during a long voyage earlier this year, their Android department failed and no chart downloads were possible at all, this took them a few months to sort out. This caused me a few problems when I wished to download new areas when I changed my cruising area... Online support were useless. Look at their Facebook page to see the anger caused by the change of policy.

Now looking at Navionics as a replacement.
 
I gave iSailor the boot after one day at sea. I found it good for planning but Navionics was better for intuitive use and the chart detail easier to see while underway.

I’m glad I did, now I’ve heard this news.
 
I am a Navionics lover but their lack of interest in AIS overlay has disillusioned me.

I’ve used ECDIS on bigger vessels and the Transas ECDIS is one of the best so I’ve invested in iSailor to run on my iPad.

I know Wartsila own the company now but its a Transas design from their software bods.

I took a big gulp and after playing with the free app and a free demo vector chart of NZ, went for a years subscription.

I’m quite impressed after a few hours playing with it.

It’s not that expensive (i remember paying out for BA paper charts and that was eye watering) and I’ve added the optional AIS and tides.

It’s a bit harder to use than the Navionics app, but the latter is simplified features wise anyway.
iSailor has some non intuitive quirky things and I had to read the book a few times but once you get it, it sticks.

I used to be a fan of Raster charts but Ive got used to vector with ECDIS over the last few years and the extra built-in intelligence is useful.

Will keep this post updated with user review as I progress.
 
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I have used iSailor for quite a while and used the Tides subscription. AIS overlay (not the web based version) is very useful. I really like the app and don't really find it too counter-intuitive.

The problem is with how their chart folio is broken down. For me, I need 3 folios (1. N. Sea Netherlands & Belgium 2. E Coast UK which stops shy of the Thames and 3. South coast UK - so thats c£90pa.

A lot of dosh.

OK, I can use my existing purchased charts corrected to March 2018 but, after a cruising life cruising the world on photocopied charts of dubious vintage I like to have up-to-date charts in my dotage.

It's a pity they can't make their individual folios cover a larger area - more in keeping with their competitors. I'd pay for two folios but three is pushing it.

Chris Edwards said:
I am a Navionics lover but their lack of interest in AIS overlay has disillusioned me.

I’ve used ECDIS on bigger vessels and the Transas ECDIS is one of the best so I’ve invested in iSailor to run on my iPad.

I know Wartsila own the company now but its a Transas design from their software bods.

I took a big gulp and after playing with the free app and a free demo vector chart of NZ, went for a years subscription.

I’m quite impressed after a few hours playing with it.

It’s not that expensive (i remember paying out for BA paper charts and that was eye watering) and I’ve added the optional AIS and tides.

It’s a bit harder to use than the Navionics app, but the latter is simplified features wise anyway.
iSailor has some non intuitive quirky things and I had to read the book a few times but once you get it, it sticks.

I used to be a fan of Raster charts but Ive got used to vector with ECDIS over the last few years and the extra built-in intelligence is useful.

Will keep this post updated with user review as I progress.
Click to expand...
 
I'm not at all happy that they think it's OK to retrospectively apply changed terms to products that you've bought in the past. I own many isailor charts and use AIS overlay and tides. I must have spent many hundreds of poiunds on them on the basis that they included free updates, now suddenly they do not!! Imagine buying a car and four years later the car company comes to you for more money because, "Sorry, we believ we may have undercharged you when you purchased it" . This can't be right!
 
Updated few minutes ago and found this (illegal, in my opinion) new contract conditions. We should complaint near Apple Store because when we are buying something there, we are signing a contract. They sold me unlimited updates to the charts I bought and now they changed the contract terms without any notice. They should apply the changes only for new purchases.
 
Re: iSailor - Backtracked - free upgrades until 29 Aug 2019

Today I wrote this email to Wartsila:

Dear iSailor Legal Department,

I have written to you previously about your company's revised terms on chart updates.

These terms are illegal and effectively break the binding terms of the contract that is established by clients who have purchased charts on the prior terms : 'free updates'.

Having new owners does not in any way dispense with the binding nature of the contract that is established by a consumer's purchase on the original terms, and it is fantasy to think otherwise, and an unfortunate step with what is otherwise a good and competitive product.

I note your recent email offering an attempt at a 'Christmas bonus'. This is a cynical ploy. You are skirting around the real issue, which is that you have reneged on your binding contract that the law has designed to protect consumers, in this case current owners of isailor charts.

This is illegal, and would be overturned in any jurisdiction's consumer court.

I suggest you offer your clients who already own charts continued updates in perpetuity, or you will never hear the end of it, on principle, since you are breaking the law.

I ask you again, kindly supply the postal address of your head office so that I may begin proceedings against this wrongdoing.

Yours sincerely
 
I also wrote to iTunes today at this link: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...contact.html&usg=AOvVaw0h5yX89d_AlnHcWr9Ss7C8


This electronic navigational chart (and about 15 others that I have purchased over the last 5 years through iTunes to the value of several hundred GBP) was purchased on the terms of free updates to those charts in perpetuity.
Recently, late November 2018, the company Transas iSailor, became Wartsila iSailor, has suddenly decided to take away the free updates that were given with every purchase. In effect they are breaking their contract, and there is uproar on the sailing forum, their Facebook page etc.
Customers have rightly pointed out that they paid more for these charts than the competitor's charts, for the specific reason that updates to these charts were free for the future. I wrote to iSailor about this and have had no reply. I wrote to them again today but thought that you ought to know, since the ball may lie in your court.
My letter of today to iSailor sent by email to isailor.support@wartsila.com:

Dear iSailor Legal Department,

I have written to you previously about your company's revised terms on chart updates.

These terms are illegal and effectively break the binding terms of the contract that is established by clients who have purchased charts on the prior terms : 'free updates'.

Having new owners does not in any way dispense with the binding nature of the contract that is established by a consumer's purchase on the original terms, and it is fantasy to think otherwise, and an unfortunate step with what is otherwise a good and competitive product.

I note your recent email offering an attempt at a 'Christmas bonus'. This is a cynical ploy. You are skirting around the real issue, which is that you have reneged on your binding contract that the law has designed to protect consumers, in this case current owners of isailor charts.

This is illegal, and would be overturned in any jurisdiction's consumer court.

I suggest you offer your clients who already own charts continued updates in perpetuity, or you will never hear the end of it, on principle, since you are breaking the law.

I ask you again, kindly supply the postal address of your head office so that I may begin proceedings against this wrongdoing.

Yours sincerely


So iTunes: kindly advise me of my legal position. I want to continue using the product that I have paid for, on the terms I have paid for. I have invested in this product having weighed up the market, and do not expect to have a binding contract broken by the supplier.
 
The replies should make some interesting reading.

They are both likely to try and wriggle and blame each other and leave us out to dry!
 
So far itunes have said, it's beyond our scope, ask your personal lawyer for advice. I haven't yet pushed them to explain why they believe they are not responsible...
 
From iTunes senior advisor today:
hanks for reaching out. My name is Zach, and I am a Senior Advisor with the iTunes Store. Your case has been escalated to me and I'll be your point of contact for this issue moving forward.

I understand that an app you’ve made purchases in is no longer offering free updates. I’ll be happy to provide as much information as possible.

Any changes made within the app would be subject to the developer’s Terms and Conditions. Because I am not a legal representative of Apple or the developer, I won’t be able to address any legal claims or advise you of your legal position.

As these concerns are related to changes the developer intentionally made to their application, you will want to continue to work with them. Since Apple cannot control the content within a third-party app, it’s the developers responsibility to discuss any changes they’ve made, grandfathering, or other options available to you.

If you need help finding the developer’s contact information, you can follow the steps on this page:

https://support.apple.com/HT207959

Thanks for your understanding.

Best regards,

Zach
Senior Advisor
Apple
 
duncan mckenzie said:
From iTunes senior advisor today:
Click to expand...
Thanks for that.

TBH I find iSailor a good app - IMO preferable to Navionics. What I don't want to see is iSailor disappearing down the tubes - I've already invested quite a few quid in charts.

Let's face it - regardless of the 'Free update for life' position the only way forward for these sort of apps is subscription. If we don't want ads it's (IMO) the obvious route.

But, I do think there should be a discounted, concessionary and reasonable update cost for subscribers prior to the takeover.

If that can be got across to the Warsila iSailor people, more power to your elbow.
 
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