Trailer Sailer in France - Legalities?

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Jaguar 25

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I am thinking of getting a trailer sailer (old, probably 1980':confused:s and 17 to 20 feet long) and leaving it in France at my holiday home in Rochefort en Terre, South Brittany at least in the November to April period to avoid storage fees in UK and allow some use in Brittany.

I am seeking information on what the necessary legalities are that need to be observed i.e. insurance, VAT, customs, contact with harbour masters, etc.

Any info would be gratefully received.
 
Very few rules to follow. Good advice on the RYA site. No issues with customs, VAT as all in the EU. Registration (SSR) is essential. You may also have to pay a tax if you are resident, but if you are just a visitor than you can use the boat freely. If you are trailing you need to comply with trailer regulations.
 
If you are not resident and the boat is on the SSR then no problem. IIRR tax would only be from 7mtr up and then only if French reg. Insurance would be advisable. If sail is the primary means of propulsion, then no licence required, even if the engine is over 6hp. I do not think, but check, that there is any restriction on the time you keep your boat in France, esp if non resident. Plenty of residents have boats on the SSR. Trailing her back and forth would an extra expense. Insure in the UK, if you try in France, they will require a survey (mate with SSR small mobo, just did this. €250 for the survey)
 
LadyInBed said:
If you trail to France and launch you will need an ICC, not needed if you sail to France.
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I'm not sure this is correct Nigel. If you launch at a seaside location, imo no ICC would be required. Of course if it's to sail in inland waters that would require an ICC on the basis that, with the mast diwn, it's a motor boat.
 
LadyInBed;4844381. You will need marine insurance for launching and being on the water. .[/QUOTE said:
Are you sure about that? Recommended, but compulsory? When I took part in a festival in Brittany, they said I needed ins. if I raced in the event. More recently I need it to take part. If it was compulsory, would they bother to mention it?

I was wondering about the ICC bit as well.
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Interestingly confusing!

Here are some thought from the Anglo Info Brittany forum:

A UK ICC should allow UK Citizens and bonafide UK residents in UK registered pleasure craft to navigate pleasure craft to or in the waters of foreign states that participate in Resolution 40 (http://www.rya.org.uk/KnowledgeBase/boatingabroad/icc/Pages/ICC.aspx). Providing you are a British Citizen your country of residence is irrelevant for the purposes of issuing an ICC. (from an e-mail sent to me this morning from the RYA). So it follows that a French Resident must register their boat in France & have French qualifications to use it offshore.

Contact les Affaires Maritimes in Vannes, they will be able to help you with a lot of that information. There are strict rules regarding speed and whatnot when sailing in the golf, and it is often patrolled by police boats who are very willing to stop foreigners to ask for their papers and insurance. The port in Vannes is run by the city, but many of the others in the area are run by a company called SAGEMOR.

The Brittany canals don't come under the VNF system.
You can get some information from www.canaux-bretons.net and from www.smatah.fr (smatah are responsible for the finistere section of the Nantes -Brest canal). To use the system if your boat is over 5 metres long and/or has a motor over 5cv You need an ICC (international certificate of Competence) and a CEVNI (certificate for inland waterways) or the french equivalents. There are no fees for using the Brittany waterways.

When I tried to register my 14 ft dory I was told (by the douanes in Quimper) that I didn't have to as it wasn't on the small shipping register in the UK and would be treated as foreign boat navigated by a foreign national as are all the small visiting yachts etc. I did point out that we had been here over a decade and were hardly visiters but were told that was okay, so many years and many mackerel later we're still having fun and have never had a problem .

The regulations regarding registration are all on page 112 of the Bloc Marine Atlantique 2012. It would be a lot for me to translate I'm afraid. You need quite a lot of different bits of paper to get it French registered. If you do you get a proper registration document. Because of the length there is no annual tax to pay. ie under 7 meters. It is quite difficult in that generally you dont get the same bits of paper when you buy a boat in the UK, cert of conformity,, submersability etc. Do you have UK SSR? Many Brits here keep their boats UK flagged although if resident they should technically register here. There is a requirement that all pleasure vessels other than 'engins de plage' be registered. Bishop and Skinner will insure boats moored and kept in France and never asked about the flag. We have a 21ft french registered boat moored afloat in Brittany insured with them 75 pounds a year with RYA discount. The Bloc Marine is worth buying if you sail in Northern France. It has all the harbour plans, chartlets, charts to 6 miles from the coast, tidal stream atlas, tide tables of reference ports and contains in the one volume all the compulsory publications which are required to be aboard by French law. About 25euro. As well as details of the regulations.

Look on www.rya.org. I can't remember the figures but if the boat and engine are small enough they will be fine. There is no requirement to have an ICC for a sailing boat, even one that uses an auxiliary engine.

If you will be using a British flagged vessel in French coastal waters it will be required to be registered. Either SSR or full British register. There are also specific requirements for equipment that must be carried dependent on use. This applies to all power vessels which are not exempt. The ones that are exempt are only suitable for beach use generally. The full regulations are in the Bloc Marine, this includes all the rules both customs and registration and permis required, as well as all the coastal charts of Atlantic France, tide tables and charts harbour plans etc etc. A worthwhile investment. Unfortunately this year it is only in French previously it was in English as well. Cover Price 27 euro although sometimes cheaper on line.

And this from the RYA

Boating Abroad

If you are cruising the waters of another country under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, that country is quite within its rights to ask you to comply with their rules and regulations, should they wish you to do so. However courteous recognition accorded by one nation to the laws and institutions of another means this is seldom the case.
The Coastal State may however require visiting vessels to comply with some of its requirements, the most common of which is requiring the skipper to prove his or her competence for that role. Carriage of local publications or regulations is also commonly stipulated. It is important that you are aware of your obligations prior to leaving UK territorial waters.

The law of the sea is frequently misunderstood, with many boaters believing that they can go wherever they wish abiding only by the rules of their Flag State (country of registration). As explained under about the law of the sea, the country in which the boat is being used (the Coastal State) can, in many circumstances, require foreign flagged boats to abide by its legislation.
The most common requirement is evidence of competence where this is mandatory for a local boat. Whether this is stipulated in the national legislation, required under local rules or the local port authority making unilateral decisions is often not clear.
Experiences differ greatly. Inconsistency from province to province and port to port means many boaters are never asked to provide evidence of their competence abroad. However, those that are asked and do not have a suitable document can find themselves in an uncomfortable situation.
Querying the validity of such requests can make matters worse and to challenge the legality of a fine or other penalty would, in most cases, mean going to court abroad.
The International Certificate for Operators of Pleasure Craft (commonly referred to as the International Certificate of Competence - ICC) is the only international evidence of competence that exists for pleasure boaters in Europe. The ICC is frequently but wrongly thought to be the boating equivalent of the EU driving licence for road vehicles, which all EU member states are obliged to accept (see About the ICC for further explanation), but it is nevertheless a valuable document when boating abroad.
The RYA's advice (intended for British recreational boaters) on where evidence of competence is necessary is based both on what we understand the law to say and boaters' experiences in the country. The RYA recommends carrying the ICC as evidence of competence in other European countries, but you may find that other certificates are also acceptable in these countries.
In very general terms an ICC is recommended for the inland waterways of Europe and for inland and coastal waters of Mediterranean countries. For the coastal waters of Northern Europe the ICC is generally not required, however to all of these generalisations there are exceptions.

The information in the table applies to UK flagged Pleasure Vessels which arrive in the waters of another country by water. Additional requirements may apply to boats that are being launched from foreign shores - check the local regulations before launching as site specific rules may apply. Different rules apply when chartering abroad.

Evidence of competence?

France
Coastal: not required (although useful in the Mediterranean)
Inland: required for most inland waters. ICC recommended as it demonstrates knowledge of the CEVNI regulations.

OK, seems that the ICC is helpful but not essential for coastal Brittany but I will apply for one using my Day Skipper quals.

Thanks.
 
Flares on the ferry nearly tripped us up one year. The Stevedore asked were the flares were located so I explained inside the flare box secured in the rib console. He waved us through on to the ferry. We had ICC, SSR, insurance and log books etc and no one ever asked us for anything. South Brittany marinas normally require French credit card for fuel, but a chat to the marina office first normally finds a solution by paying in the marina with UK card or cash.

Pete
 
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Pete7 said:
Flares on the ferry nearly tripped us up one year. The Stevedore asked were the flares were located so I explained inside the flare box secured in the rib console. He waved us through on to the ferry. We had ICC, SSR, insurance and log books etc and no one ever asked us for anything. South Brittany marinas normally require French credit card, but a chat to the marina office first normally finds a solution by paying in the marina with UK card or cash.

Never thought about flares but probably won't have any for the sailing that I intend to do. If I do, I understand that they must be within date. On my current boat they aren't!
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Jaguar 25 said:
I am thinking of getting a trailer sailer (old, probably 1980':confused:s and 17 to 20 feet long) and leaving it in France at my holiday home in Rochefort en Terre, South Brittany at least in the November to April period to avoid storage fees in UK and allow some use in Brittany.

I am seeking information on what the necessary legalities are that need to be observed i.e. insurance, VAT, customs, contact with harbour masters, etc.

Any info would be gratefully received.
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You are relatively new to the forum so you may have missed the acrid debate on papers on previous threads.

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...e-thread/page2&highlight=Papers+French+waters

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...arters-respond&highlight=Papers+French+waters
 
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Sybarite said:
I'm not sure this is correct Nigel. If you launch at a seaside location, imo no ICC would be required. Of course if it's to sail in inland waters that would require an ICC on the basis that, with the mast diwn, it's a motor boat.
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You may well be right, I just remember that a friend of mine's son used to take a RIB to France to go spear fishing and he told me that one was required.
Maybe it was due to engine size.

Re insurance, I am of the minimalist school regarding paperwork, but I wouldn't like to launch anywhere without it.
 
LadyInBed said:
You may well be right, I just remember that a friend of mine's son used to take a RIB to France to go spear fishing and he told me that one was required.
Maybe it was due to engine size.

Re insurance, I am of the minimalist school regarding paperwork, but I wouldn't like to launch anywhere without it.
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Yes you have to distinguish between motor boats and sailing boats. You do not need a license for the latter when the motor is considered to be an auxiliary. (There is formula to determine if it's an auxiliary but it's pretty large). Motor boats with a motor of 6hp or more need a licence whether on the sea or in inland waters.
 
duncanmack said:
Insure it in France - much cheaper than in UK. They only want a survey IIRC it's over 7.5m. Any French Ins Broker will do it.
Pm me if you want a broker in Auray.
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Umm, my boat is 4.7mtr and friend's is the same. Needed a survey. Also, my renewal premium is around 70euro for third party and towing etc.
 
duncanmack said:
We've 3 in the family, 5.25m (French boat), 6.46m & 7.47m (both British reg) One is with Finisterre Assurance the others are with AXA, No survey required. Who is your insurer?
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AXA . But might have to do with it being home built, as is one of my mate's. The other is a 15ft RN planing pinnace, just restored and on SSR. He was asked for a survey two weeks ago.
DW
 
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