Trailer advice - towing 25' twin keeler

[matt1]

Hi

Anyone got any advice about towing (on the road!) a 25' twin keeler. Displacement is about 2 - 2.5 tons. Draft 3' air draft about 8'??

Q)What sort of trailer would be required?

Q) Could the boat be stored long term on a trailer?

Q) in reality how practical is it? Or is it on the limit for towing?

Q) What kind of vehicle is likely to required?

Q) Guesses as to 2nd hand trailer prices??

Thanks, sorry its so many questions. Newbie to trailering

 

[duncan]

Hi

Anyone got any advice about towing (on the road!) a 25' twin keeler. Displacement is about 2 - 2.5 tons. Draft 3' air draft about 8'??

Q)What sort of trailer would be required?

One that is designed to take the load and loading - ie a flatbed would take the shape but the load distribution could be a problem

Q) Could the boat be stored long term on a trailer?

Yes

Q) in reality how practical is it? Or is it on the limit for towing?

With the right trailer and tow vehicle..........and then there's launch/recovery

Q) What kind of vehicle is likely to required?

One that can tow 2800 - 3500KG Think Landcruiser (all) Shogun, Disco,etc and truck derivatives

Q) Guesses as to 2nd hand trailer prices??

If you are doing it a lot you will want new - going to be in the region of £3k

Thanks, sorry its so many questions. Newbie to trailering

reply in text above

 

[VicS]

You will find a lot of useful info that should answer most of the questions on the National Trailer and Towing Association website http://www.ntta.co.uk/

I would not store a boat on a road trailer without jacking it up to take the load off the wheels, although OK for a short time.

 

[davidpbo]

As per Duncan

You need to know the weight of the boat with all the gubins that will be on board when you tow. That is anchor, fuel, water?, holding tank/toilet. food clothing etc. ropes & fenders left on board, engine. Otherwise you have to be very disciplined to take averything off. Over the limit for the vehicle or trailer you could invalidating your insurance and committing other offences.

The maximum towing capacity of the largest 4X4s is usually 3500kgs. A twin wheeled trailer for this type of boat is likely to weigh 500kgs +. You probably don't want to be towing the maximum for any length of time. I tow 2300kgs or so with a 3.0L Isuzu Trooper (admitedly 12 years old) and it is enough. 3500kgs might be fine for a farmer towing locally.

Yes the boat could be stored on the trailer but jack and prop so the wheels are clear. Protect the tyres from UV or remove the wheels.

Launching and recovering this type of a boat will probably have to been done on a good sheltered slipway, a lot these may have other methods of launching available e.g. hoist (Expensive) or tractor (Less expensive).

Factor in the additional cost of running a large 4X4 they ain't going to get any cheaper and most newer ones are in the higher tax band.

I second Duncan on going for a new trailer from an experienced manufacturer. Too much weight and too many stresses involved.

Use an anti snaking device. Get the nose weight right.

If you have a combination that looks right and is driven sensibly you are less likely to get pulled by the law.

 

[Zagato]

I thought I read somewhere that there is a limit to the width of a boat that can be towed on the road. Might be worth checking, it is the reason trailer sailing is limited to about 28' as the beam has already hit it's maximum re boat design. Perhaps this is just an American ruling!

 

[misterg]

I thought I read somewhere that there is a limit to the width of a boat that can be towed on the road. Might be worth checking, it is the reason trailer sailing is limited to about 28' as the beam has already hit it's maximum re boat design. Perhaps this is just an American ruling!

Yes, there is a limit - it'll be on the NTTA site that VicS posted a link to.

Note, however that the dimensions relate to the TRAILER, not the LOAD (i.e. the boat) which can overhang the trailer by 305mm either side (upto a maximum width of 2.9m IIRC), and up to 3.05m at the rear of the trailer - check the website, but you need to look for the allowable overhangs, as well as the trailer dimensions.

Andy

 

[Ubergeekian]

Yes, there is a limit - it'll be on the NTTA site that VicS posted a link to.

Treat what they say with caution, though. They are wrong about the maximum permissible length of a trailer so I see no reason to believe that they are right about the maximum permissible width.

 

[ProDave]

I don't think size is an issue. You are allowed about 300mm side overhang and up to 3 metres rear overhang. But there's also a clause that lets you tow a custom trailer for an "indivisible load", somebody cited the example of a perfectly legal 35ft long glider trailer.

Get the trailer well ballanced and matched to the car, otherwise towing will be a chore. For instance my modest trailer has a very high tow hitch and I had to fit a drop plate in reverse to give me a much higher tow ball on the car.

At the sort of weight you are talking about, the boat, trailer and substantial tow car could well be approaching a total of 7.5 tonnes, the maximum for an ordinary licence.

I assume you have held a licence for a good number of years, otherwise new drivers have a much lower towing limit unless they take another trailer test.

I think your bigest problem will be slipway launching the boat. To get the trailer in far enough willl need a very steep slipway or the back of the car is going to get wet. Consider an extending drawbar on the trailer, or a second winch to winch the trailer on it's own into the water.

Consider a crane. The local boat club I'm joining organises an annual crane in and crane out which costs a modest £20 per lift, obviously a lot cheaper as 20 or so boats are being lifted on the same day.

 

[Searush]

At that size, I trust you are not looking at day sailing - the hassle or cost of launch & recovery will be too great. Not something you could do on your own & not always easy with just the missus helping. But you might be OK for launch & recovery at the start & end of the season or holiday.

I brought my 25' back home on a trailer for fettling one winter & then took her up to Scotland & launched at Dumbarton on the Clyde.

 

[VicS]

Treat what they say with caution, though. They are wrong about the maximum permissible length of a trailer so I see no reason to believe that they are right about the maximum permissible width.

they seem to say the same as the DfT for the length but there is a discrepancy on the width.
DfT say 2.55m for both GVW >3500kg and <3500kg

NTTA say 2.3m for GVW <3500kg

 

[earlybird]

they seem to say the same as the DfT for the length but there is a discrepancy on the width.
DfT say 2.55m for both GVW >3500kg and <3500kg

NTTA say 2.3m for GVW <3500kg

www.ntta.co.uk/news/news_details.aspx?NewsID=11

 

[VicS]

So the NTTA are not wrong after all ... just a bit slow updating the main part of the website. New website on the way apparently

 

[Ubergeekian]

So the NTTA are not wrong after all ... just a bit slow updating the main part of the website. New website on the way apparently

They are certainly wrong about the length. I have, perfectly legally, towed a 34' long trailer behind a normal car ... as someone else has suggested, it was a glider trailer. Specially built for a single indivisible load.

Mind you, some police forces don't know that either. The situation with glider pilots getting nicked for towing legal trailers was so bad, ten or so years ago, that the British Gliding Association sent all gliding clubs a letter from the DoT confirming that glider trailers were legal, so we could carry copies with us.

 

[capetown]

Hi

Anyone got any advice about towing (on the road!) a 25' twin keeler. Displacement is about 2 - 2.5 tons. Draft 3' air draft about 8'??

Q)What sort of trailer would be required?

Q) Could the boat be stored long term on a trailer?

Q) in reality how practical is it? Or is it on the limit for towing?

Q) What kind of vehicle is likely to required?

Q) Guesses as to 2nd hand trailer prices??

Thanks, sorry its so many questions. Newbie to trailering

Hi Matt,

I was in the same situation as you but have a mate with a serious 4x4.

Trailer needed would be twin axle weight around 600Kg (you don't list the weight of your boat)
As mentioned elsewhere, beware of all your boaty clutter, it could take you into a bigger trailer.

Practical, yes very, you can save a bomb if you store it at home, get a mast lowering kit.

Vehicle, surprisingly there are only a few beasts that have any serious towing grunt.
Depending on budget, £2k for a Daihatsu Fourtrack, it's a good cheap lump, or about the same for an older Landy Disco, but this is the type of vehicle you will need.

2nd hand, yes mine was, 2 years old, these are about half new price. When veiwing ask if you can remove the drake drums, if it's been dunked in the sea and not flushed, knock £500 off the asking price or walk away.
You could ckeck out, boatsandoutboards, Apollo Duck, and the Class Association, a new one will be about £3k.

R M trailers, make very good ones, will service them, and offer a flushing kits as an extra. I don't work for them, just a very satisfied customer.

 

[VicS]

They are certainly wrong about the length. I have, perfectly legally, towed a 34' long trailer behind a normal car ... as someone else has suggested, it was a glider trailer. Specially built for a single indivisible load.

Mind you, some police forces don't know that either. The situation with glider pilots getting nicked for towing legal trailers was so bad, ten or so years ago, that the British Gliding Association sent all gliding clubs a letter from the DoT confirming that glider trailers were legal, so we could carry copies with us.

DfT website says 7m length for a vehicle <3500kg GVW, 12m for >3500kg

What you did 10 years ago with a glider is not relevant to the OP's current question about a boat trailer, unless you feel that a valid defence in court would be that, "Uzbeekikan said 34 ft is allowed"

 

[misterg]

Note, however that the dimensions relate to the TRAILER, not the LOAD (i.e. the boat) which can overhang the trailer by 305mm either side (upto a maximum width of 2.9m IIRC), and up to 3.05m at the rear of the trailer

They are certainly wrong about the length. I have, perfectly legally, towed a 34' long trailer behind a normal car ..

DfT website says 7m length for a vehicle <3500kg GVW, 12m for >3500kg

7m trailer + 3.05m overhang is >32'6 towed length.

The length of the draw-bar can be added to that, so 34' isn't unrealistic, and not at odds with the NTTA site.

Anyway, back to the question

The beam of the boat is likely to be the limiting factor.

Andy

 

[matt1]

Thanks all - fantastic advice and I didn't realise there were so many regulations. I guess I should have said that I'm not really thinking of trailer sailing a boat of this displacement. It's more a question of long term storage (farms, caravan yards etc) and wanting to have the ability to move the boat around (relatively) easily rather than having the expense of lorries and cranes/hiabs.

Thanks again

 

[MorrowinD]

Hi.

Can I ask, is the jacking up and taking the weight off the wheels advice relevant to a 450Kg Bilge Keel on a trailer ?

Thanks.

 

[VicS]

Hi.

Can I ask, is the jacking up and taking the weight off the wheels advice relevant to a 450Kg Bilge Keel on a trailer ?

Thanks.

It may not be relevant at all.
It is my preference to jack it up to take the weight off the wheels. My boat is a little heavier.
I would not bother for a few weeks but I do for a six month lay up. Although to be honest in all the years I have owned it it has only been on the trailer 4 times.

 

[misterg]

Thanks all - fantastic advice and I didn't realise there were so many regulations. I guess I should have said that I'm not really thinking of trailer sailing a boat of this displacement. It's more a question of long term storage (farms, caravan yards etc) and wanting to have the ability to move the boat around (relatively) easily rather than having the expense of lorries and cranes/hiabs.

Thanks again

So you're still going to need something 'road legal'...

I thing the bottom line is that if the maximum width of the boat is less than 2.9m, then it can be done fairly easily - the weight of the boat (2500kg??) and suitable trailer (500kg??) puts you firmly at the top end of of available "normal" tow vehicles. (Someone has already mentioned that "newer" (1998 on??) driving licences don't come with a towing entitlement..)

I towed a 22', 1200kg bilge keeler home every winter for a few years, and I would recommend it if you've got somewhere to keep the boat near the house - very handy for winter work, and zero cost. It had to be craned onto / off the trailer, though (not a problem).

I'm sure you're looking at £1k+ for a 2nd hand trailer, probably £1500+ for a decent one. You have an advantage with a bilge keeler that you could probably use a 'flat-bed' trailer which are probably easier to come by.

Hi.

Can I ask, is the jacking up and taking the weight off the wheels advice relevant to a 450Kg Bilge Keel on a trailer ?

I never bothered with the above boat. You don't jack you car up at night, do you? Others will have differing views I did 'block the trailer off' to stop it rocking when I was working on the boat, and tried to keep the sun off the tyres.

Andy