Totally stupid boats

[Gludy]

I am totally amazed as to what some boat builders get away with.

Just two examples from Fairline:-

Example 1
Squadron 58 - task to remove rocker covers of engine.
This involves throwing away the glued down saloon carpet, removing nearly all the furniture in the lounge including having to break some that was screwed too tightly down, replacing furniture with new stuuf and matching veneer ... in total about 5 man days work taking out and putting back. Checking tappet clearance actually takes a little over an hour.


Example 2
Fairline Turbo 36
Engineer goes to check it for sale and cannot check the starboard engine oil because they have built a fuel tank support over the dip stick and even bending the dip stick will achive nowt!

I could name lots more and Fairline are not alone - boats are being built that should never go to sea - no engine room access and not fit for the purpose because of their inability to properly carry out routine maintainance.

Now I would like to see the mags do a list of such stupid features on boats and start to name and shame. Will that ever happen? Why are we all so silent about such issues. Does anyone know anymore really stupid design features of boats that are just designed to sell not be used?






<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[sailorman]

example 2 is more than likely a fitter whos never been to sea or had to service anything he has had a hand in building.
its a lack of instruction / supervision

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[BrendanS]

as the boats designed this way are clearly unfit for purpose, surely the manufacturers should be responsible for remedy of the design faults at their cost, otherwise take them to court under several bits of consumer legislation (OK, know it's not that easy, but if several people persued this course, they might get there act together, knowing there would be huge costs if they don't)

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni

 

[Gludy]

You are correct in saying the law protects and not only that it is easy to win and in fact force them to take the boat back and refund you.... it is so easy.

<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[Renegade_Master]

You'd have though Fairline would have learnt from their Corniche 31 whcih required helm seat and other furniture to be moved to do engine checks.

see also my thread on cruiser problems Gludy

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.suncoastmarine.co.uk>Sun Coast Sea School & Charter</A>

 

[britemp]

Sounds like a friends Ferrari 348 - alternator failed. New one was only a couple of hundred quid, but the engine and rear suspension had to be removed to fit it, £5k! /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif


<hr width=100% size=1><< Sig removed at request from Kim Hollamby - he thought it might scare forumites! >>

 

[stefan]

Stop that or you make a big guy cry! I Have considered the Squad 59 as a possible target. - The fly is great in my opinion. And the hull is good, they say and based on my previous experience having owned a Fairline I would be surprised if not. - Is it then that the interiors now adays are ordered from design studios specialized in roof top penthouses or... That bring the pimp carpets/textiles, split level interiors, too short?? beds, breakfast kitchens, dinner tables for 3 in a boat sleeping eight, tear drop windows with no wiz etc. etc. - Fleming 55 could be a solution. But the Squad is better looking outside and probably a better sea boat!?

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[Moose]

Fleming 55 a better sea boat?????????/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.phantom37.co.uk>http://www.phantom37.co.uk</A>
Moose

 

[Gludy]

My Squadrom 59 was well planned by the first owner. Everthing from 20 kw gnerator to full tropical reverse aircon, it is the most highly speced Squadron 59 on the market.

He had Volvo 600 hp fitted and my service chap reckons it the best boat in the marina for engine access. It tops at 31 knots and crusies all day at 26 knots. I have come across no servicing problems at all.

When i first got it top was 25 knots and cruise 20 knots. All I did was dose it wilth double soltron a few times, had to change filters three times and then it was clear and it hums away perfectly.

In fact I am very pleased with the boat. I have spent a fortune on it to inprove lots of details and it is working perfectly. However it is good, not because of Fairline but because of the first owner understanding a thing or two when he speced the boat.

I met another Squadron 59 with two 670 hp Mans and he had the same problem as the new Squadron 58 with it not being possible to take the roker cover off!


<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[Renegade_Master]

thats not what he said moose

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[KevB]

Re: Totally stupid boats and cars

I have heard that to replace the starter motor in a Merc A class the engine needs to be removed?

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://static.photobox.co.uk/public/images/45/99/10714599.s.jpg?ch=97&rr=16:00:39>Nirvana</A>

 

[EME]

Squadron 58

I'm not sure who did your example 1 but they must have been a bit ham-fisted. Think you'll find that a poster hereabouts had the job done recently - and although it was a 'bit of a job'.. don't recall non-glued-down carpet being thrown away or any breakage whatsover . JFM comment?

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue>I am WHAT I say I am</font color=blue>

 

[Gludy]

Re: Squadron 58

I took about 50 photos of the whole thing to record it all for the owner.
It inolved replacment furniture because they had to break an exisitng unit - could not remove the screws etc. It took a few days to do. The actual work on the engine took about an hour.

I frankly think that there simply should be enough room to simply remove the rocker covers full stop or is that just too technically advanced for today's boat designers?

<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

Re: Squadron 58

Well, I must confess that after re-engining the dipstick is under a locker and needs to be bent through 90deg to be insterted/pulled out, the alternator needs a 5' x 3' panel unscrewed to get to it (and crawling into the hold), ditto the oil filter.

But that's all my fault as the boat wasn't designed to have the engine fitted. I'd be mightily underwhelmed if I ever had the requisite for a brand new boat and couldn't get at pretty much everything without tools or needing to lose several stone in weight.

Maybe I'm over optimistic...

<hr width=100% size=1>Two beers please, my friend is paying.

 

[EME]

Re: Squadron 58

JFM would be a better correspondent on the subject, but from memory ... less than 2 man Days ( for a lot more than this) , no damage, in fact really well refitted.

When I had a look , I could only assume that the securing bolts on the rocker covers ( D8s) must have been 18 inches long !! However by that time lounge was back 'in situ' and couldn't consequently have been removed !

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue>I am WHAT I say I am</font color=blue>

 

[Gludy]

Re: Squadron 58

The rocker cover itself could not be lifted off because it was so near to the floor and joists. All they had to do was redsign the joists to allow a panel to be lifted out and not glue the carpets down!

I saw this with my own eyes and recorded it as all the fitted lounge furniture was stacked up in the cockpit and overflowed onto the pontoon.

My only claim is that this sort of design is both stupid and common.

We should be aware of it and demand higher standards.



<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[tico]

OK
Original fitment of Starboard fuel filter was at the base of the transom between the 2 engines!!
Even lying on top of the engines, I could only just touch it, let alone turn it to remove and refit, therefore I guess it had never been changed.
Took the opportunity to relocate it when re-engining so I could get at it easily.
Crap design!!!!

<hr width=100% size=1>Been there, done that, got the oily T shirt

 

[Gludy]

totally thoughtless design without any excuse or defence.

<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[jfm]

disagreeing on sq58

Gludy you are talking crap on the Sq 58 if it is the volvo D12s, I dont care how many photos you have. I have had this work done 6 weeks ago (at Monaco Marine in France, and excellent firm) and watched it wiv my own eyes. Before I let them start I called Peters in chi and they assured me this job is a piece of cake

You are correct that the saloon floor access panels have to be removed to do the valve clearances. Otherwise rocker lids wont come off. Yuo do not have to throw away the carpet, it is perfectly refittable with no trace of removal having occured. You do not "remove nearly all the furniture in the lounge", only the sofa comes out, which is a piece of cake. All the cabinet work on the starboard side stays in. You are a MechE grad like me so you know that "having to break some [furniture] that was screwed too tightly down" smells of crap workmanship by the engine service firm not fairline. How do you insert self tappers and silicone (which are the structural components on Sq58 ) so hard that you have to bust furniture, doh? None of our furniture was busted, when they put it all back the boat looked 100% perfect.

There is a design compromise here. Yes you could have a higher floor to allow the rocker covers to come up, but that would be a massive compromise in terms of space use and aesthetics (which the Sq58 is strong on). And you could have floor panels that give engine access, but they would be big (D12s not small) and there are noise, smell leakage and aesthetic issues with all that.

So, removing the saloon floor is dead easy if it's done right. The carpet can be refitted perfectly. The extra time is about 5 hours, our total bill specifically for the saloon dismantle work was a few hundred Euros. Then rememebr the valve clearances are done at 150 hours then 800 then 1600. So Fairline have imposed a few of hours work for a job needed at 12months then 4 years intervals, but in return you get a better use of space and no horrid hatches in the saloon floor. Everything is a compromise, but fairline called this one right imho.

Gludy I dont doubt what happened in your case happened, but it must have been a hamfisted fitter and carpet wrecker guy. You are thus wrong to condemn the Sq58 and its designers for this one

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[Gludy]

Re: disagreeing on sq58

I am not sure which enginges they were but I do nknow what I saw and recorded. Steverow was there as the hammerhead filled up with the furniture that was removed.
My guess is that there are different versions 58.

It was Fairline staff who removed the furniture not the fitter who refused to do it after initail problems.

"work for a job needed at 12months then 4 years intervals"

The engine manual said so many hours but at least EVERY 12 MONTHS - so it is a yearly job and the carpet was glued down. Fairline agreed to replace it.





<hr width=100% size=1>Paul