Topping Lift Pt 2

[Hunson]

As the boat is in its cradle and the mast is down. I have drawn up an image of what the top of my mast looks like.

As you can see I have a bar that comes out the top away from the mast. There are three clevis pins. The outermost which the backstay attaches to.

My idea is to put a block at the top on the pin nearest the mast, ensuring that it does not interfere with the main halyard and then add another block at the foot of the mast (I have several) and run back to cockpit.

Does this seem a feasible idea. Unfortunately the mast width is only wide enough for one reeve.

Boom is approx 3 mtrs and mast is approx 9 mtrs, so with my limited arithmatic that would mean my missing edge is about 9.5mtrs, so was planning on looking at 25mtrs for overall length of rope required.

Also, would a cam cleat be sufficient for locking off? Normally when the main sail is down we attach the main halyard to the end of the boom which is back to the cockpit through a clutch. So topping would only need to be secured whilst the sail is being raised or lowered.

Thanks.

Gary.

 

[MoodySabre]

That all looks OK to me. You will have to make sure that the topping lift going up the outside of the mast doesn't foul the mainsail when you hoist. On a rig like mine where the ropes go up inside the mast there are no ropes on the back of the mast to get in the way.

I did once see an arrangement for bringing the topping lift down from the top of the mast (where it was fixed) and jamming off at the end of the boom but I can't remember quite how it was done. I think the the lift just went round a shackle and back into a jamming cleat that was attached to the lift. That would hold it whilst you hoist sail and keep the topping lift clear of the track. And you'd save 15mtrs of rope /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[tillergirl]

Top of the mast arrangement would be like that on TG. Only comment is that I suspect that pulling on the topping lift in the cockpit might be significant if you have a heavy boom like me.

 

[CPD]

The engineer in me cant help but say move the backstay to the middle pin thereby reducing the bending moment on the horizontal bar, and the associated stresses on it.

 

[Wunja]

Mine is fitted in exactly the way you propose and I have had no problems with it.

 

[johnalison]

It may depend on what you want the topping-lift for. I find that the number of occasions when I use it to alter the sail shape is very small, so if I only wanted one to stop the boom from dropping in a smallish boat I would be tempted to attach the topping-lift to the mast-head and clip it to the boom, possibly with some adjustment available. This would avoid the complication and windage of having a full hoist. In a larger craft the option might be to do away with a topping-lift and just use a rod kicker, unless you have some reason to want an extra hoist to the mast-head, though I wouldn't trust my weight on anything not sheaved into the mast.

 

[Hunson]

MS:

Thanks, having an internal would be nice to keep it all clean and tidy. Unfortunately the mast at the top is not that thick very much a squashed oval shape which flares probably no more than 5mm each side of the reeve at the top.

TG:

Thanks, Boom weighs in at 6kg bare. Probably 25kg or less with mainsail and lines for reefs and outhaul.

CPD:

Thanks, I think its on the last one to ensure clearance on the leech, even on the last one there is not that much clearance.

VinceH:

Thanks.

 

[Hunson]

[ QUOTE ]
It may depend on what you want the topping-lift for.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kermudjon

The main reasons are to support the boom when the main halyard has been taken to hoist the sail, saving swmbo holding onto the end to prevent it bouncing on the coach roof and again when lowering.

Also to scandalize if necessary and support the boom when reefing.

Majority of the rest of the time the weight will either be held by the sail or by the main halyard when not sailing.

 

[johnalison]

In that case, a fixed line might work best. There may be some good reason why this isn't seamanlike, but I can't think of one. You just need to have it a bit longer than the leech of the sail.

 

[Gargleblaster]

Why not try a fixed line as Kermudjon suggests with the last 2 feet or so with a block on each end going to a cleat on the end of the boom. This allows you to raise and lower the boom to scandalise the sail and to hold it in the right position while reefing. I have such and arrangement on Glayva and it makes life very easy when reefing single handed. In my case the bottom two feet of the topping lift is only 5mm dyneema with a two to one advantage with the bottom block with a built in cleat. While I can adjust my topping lift through a cleat on my mast, I never have to do so and can see no reason why you should have a topping lift that is fixed to the top of the mast with just a couple of blocks at the bottom. In fact there is no reason that you need anything but a cleat at the end of your boom that the topping lift could be adjusted from.

 

[Hunson]

Glayva,

I have to admit to being a bit thick on this one /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif is their a chance of a diagram?

My grey cells are struggling to understand a fixed line that is adjustable. And am confused with the blocks on each end going to a cleat on the boom.

Sorry. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[MoodySabre]

Like this I presume

sorry drawing wasn't a bit stronger /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Hunson]

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif I get it now.

I will discuss options with swmbo, as she is normally the one at the helm whilst I raise/lower the sails.

Many thanks guys.

Gary.

 

[Hunson]

Well have just spoken to swmbo and explained options and she likes the fixed option.

Many thanks again.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Fixed option is simplest, easiest to sort if you have problems, can be geared if its hard work......

definitely the route i'd go....

About the only downside I can see is that it wouldn't make an emergency main halyard.....

 

[Sixpence]

Glad you lot understand it /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Have fitted a roller at the mast head, another at the base, and a line runs from cockpit to base roller, up the mast a few mm away from it, through the roller at the mast head intending to make it off at the end of the boom. Am I anything like on target with my thinking or have I missed the mark somewhere ? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[MoodySabre]

That will work ok Dave. The only issue was to avoid a line going up the outside of the mast which might snag on the top of the sail as it is hoisted. If it works then don't worry. If it does snag then the method suggested to Hunson overcomes that potential problem.

 

[Sixpence]

Thanks Roger, it's just that it was sounding too complicated to me, but that explains it. Happy bunny again /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Hunson]

[ QUOTE ]
It's just that it was sounding too complicated to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dave, that was the problem I was suffering, mental technical doofery.

But the simple picture ( I like Pictures ) from moodysabre sorted it for me.

I was going to do the same as you have done and may still do so as Morgana has made a good point about a spare halyard in an emergency.

 

[Sixpence]

Hi Gary
Good to hear I'm not the only one that has problems translating words into actions /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I hadn't even heard of a topping lift until Neil & Jim came over to show me how the mast went up, so once the parts arrived it wasn't easy figuring out what to do with them. But I just figured that it would be something to lift the end of the boom above head height when not sailing, and I wanted to be able to do as much as possible from the safety of the cockpit, so all I need now is somewhere to make off the loose end. I have very few cleats so the ones I have will have to double up with the genny strings. Kicker one side and topping lift the other side, though I hadn't thought about the topping lift being a spare halyard. Now not sure my pulley at the mast head would take that much weight, but I'll have another look at my arrangement this afternoon. I have a pass to go work on her today after being dragged around shopping for xmas too long /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Never know, I might have the mains installed by tonight /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif