Top up for winter on duty free red

[DAKA]

I have just heard of several people filling up with Red , not on a 60/40 split but on 100% declared heating fuel on the basis the 'Top up' is for the winter heating and they are not going anywhere.

Anyone else tried this, does it sound feasible , would a fuel supplier such as MDL / Premier let you take it duty free ?

 

[rafiki_]

At our Marina it is a self declaration process, with a form that one fills in! I have previously submitted a 100% domestic declaration, but not this year, as we did not go anywhere over that winter, but did run the engines regularly to top-up batteries and warm the boat up.

 

[gjgm]

I dont think MDL care- its not their issue what you declare. You give your name postcode and address, sign the declaration and they keep it should anyone want to inspect it. I know some people claim 100pct non propulsion during the summer...
I do wonder if the system becomes clearly abused what will happen...

 

[Chris_d]

I filled up last week and the fuelstation lets you declare what you want, they have a chart with all the prices, 60/40 was £1.10 so I went for a split which gave me a more reasonable price of £1.00, as you say its winter coming up so you can sort of justify it without pushing your luck too far I hope.

 

[iangrant]

It works

I filled up last week and the fuelstation lets you declare what you want, they have a chart with all the prices, 60/40 was £1.10 so I went for a split which gave me a more reasonable price of £1.00, as you say its winter coming up so you can sort of justify it without pushing your luck too far I hope.

700 litres will run a DL5, 24 hours a day, at 0.34L/Per hour - that's on "medium heat"

For 12 weeks, so halve that heater time on say 12 hours a day and it should do it!

Unless me sums are wrong


Ian

 

[Chris_d]

I do wonder if the system becomes clearly abused what will happen...

I fill up inland on the River Thames and it would appear that most Narrowboaters are declaring splits way off 60/40, so you have to wonder what HMRC are making of it. What happens to all those declarations, do they get entered into a computer somewhere or just thrown in a file, when will they trigger an investigation, do they note if the fuel was bought on the coast or inland. Would be interesting to know, I supect all the tax offices are too busy to care at the moment though

 

[DAKA]

I supect all the tax offices are too busy to care at the moment though

But for how long, maybe we should change are Avatar photos away from running/wake shots to Ebbys smoking away on frosty mornings

 

[KevB]

I would have thought the 60/40 split takes into account low boat and high heater usage in winter.

 

[Elessar]

I have just heard of several people filling up with Red , not on a 60/40 split but on 100% declared heating fuel on the basis the 'Top up' is for the winter heating and they are not going anywhere.

Anyone else tried this, does it sound feasible , would a fuel supplier such as MDL / Premier let you take it duty free ?

taking the mick on declaration is as antisocial as throwing rubbish over the side. It will spoil things for everyone.

The very pragmatic 60/40 split was better than we could all have hoped for. Interesting that at 60/40 we are paying something like the minimum duty the EU wanted us to pay.

Those doing 100% in the winter I assume will do 100% the other way in the summer? If not, treat them like lepars.

 

[Moody]

700 litres will run a DL5, 24 hours a day, at 0.34L/Per hour - that's on "medium heat"

For 12 weeks, so halve that heater time on say 12 hours a day and it should do it!

Unless me sums are wrong


Ian

Ian

Prepared to be shot down but my maths say nearer 24 weeks

Neil

 

[sailorman]

I have just heard of several people filling up with Red , not on a 60/40 split but on 100% declared heating fuel on the basis the 'Top up' is for the winter heating and they are not going anywhere.

Anyone else tried this, does it sound feasible , would a fuel supplier such as MDL / Premier let you take it duty free ?

Why should that be a problem

 

[blueglass]

Those doing 100% in the winter I assume will do 100% the other way in the summer? If not, treat them like lepars.

So you are assuming the "summer" is so hot you never use your heating? Come on, this a fair play in my opinion, no need for leper colonies.

 

[strakeryrius]

Why should that be a problem

Declaring 100% as heating might be regarded as acceptable for full-time liveaboards in the winter months, but as has been said above, the HMRC's concession to allow ordinary pleasure boaters a 60/40 split for the whole year already takes into account the higher usage for heating in winter months. To risk upsetting the applecart for everyone by abusing the system and declaring 100% as heating for non-liveaboards is entirely reprehensible unless the same persons declare 100% for propulsion (or as near as dammit) during the summer months to offset this.

 

[iangrant]

60/40 Just done it for 780 litres

because even in the winter I doubt I'll use 40% for heating, as said there will always be those who tey to buck the system, let's hope it doesn't stuff it up for everyone and we all end up paying 100% white diesel costs!!


Ian

 

[CX54WEK]

So you are assuming the "summer" is so hot you never use your heating? Come on, this a fair play in my opinion, no need for leper colonies.

Or charge your batteries or heat your water both of which come under domestic use.

The 60/40 split is a more than fair split for most leisure users but during the winter when cruising becomes less popular why shouldnt people claim different splits? OK 100% domestic may be pushing it a little, after all how did they get to the fuel pump?, but splits of say 20/80 probably wouldnt be that far fetched for some during the winter months.

 

[fireball]

because even in the winter I doubt I'll use 40% for heating, as said there will always be those who tey to buck the system, let's hope it doesn't stuff it up for everyone and we all end up paying 100% white diesel costs!!


Ian

Whilst I agree with you (not that it makes huge differences on my small tank) there is also the argument that there will be enough people who will already "abuse" this that the change will inevitably happen - so you might as well take advantage of it whilst you can ...

 

[Nick_H]

... HMRC's concession to allow ordinary pleasure boaters a 60/40 split for the whole year already takes into account the higher usage for heating in winter months...

Strictly speaking, you're supposed to estimate the split of usage for the tank of fuel you are buying, not average it out over the year.

 

[KevB]

Strictly speaking, you're supposed to estimate the split of usage for the tank of fuel you are buying, not average it out over the year.

Interesting. In my marina you make a yearly declaration

 

[KevB]

The 60/40 split is an average throughout the year so winter usage is already factored in. Claim 100% for the winter but remember to do a 98/2 split in the summer.

 

[PaulGooch]

Actually, the 60/40 split is what HMRC said they "thought" would be about right for the average boater. It has been adopted by most people as the norm. That isn't strictly correct though. You are supposed to declare your estimate of how much you will use for heating/propulsion. 60/40 is not an automatic entitlement. It isn't supposed to be averaged out for the year, it is based on the fuel you are buying at the time.

If your boat was going to sit on it's mooring all Winter and you weren't going to take it out, you could legitimately claim 100%. Whether or not HMRC will happily accept that you go and sit in the marina long enough through the Winter to burn 1000 ltrs of diesel in the eber is another matter. As said, perhaps they have enough to do already, rather than worry about some fuel duty. On the other hand, a sudden, large drop in payments from marina's might set some alarms off, who knows.

That's how it is supposed to work, however, pretty much everyone applies/accepts 60/40. I know i do.