tonybarebones
Well-Known Member
No spark from your seagull outboard!... Quick fix... attach an electric drill to the fly-wheel nut with an appropriate socket and run it for a few minutes... hey presto the spark is restored... at least it worked on mine 
See more below...
I am getting a spark, but only a very weak one, should I replace the coil? Common fault with early villiers ignitions. (Wipac uses different magnets and I have not found one that has lost magnetism as yet.)
No, but here is a trick I learnt years ago and thought I had mentioned on these pages already, but no. NOTE, FOR Villiers POINTS IGN ONLY. If the spark is weak, it could be that the magnetism in the flywheel is low. You can get flywheels 're-magnetised', at a cost, if you can find someone who has the kit. But first try this:
Spin the engine up with an electric drill! First remove the plug, then fit a socket to the flywheel nut and a drill to a socket set extension. I use a rechargeable electric drill, but any will do. (reduce the friction, squirt a little oil into the bore and carb, to lubricate the motor.)
Spin the motor up, I recon I get to 1500 revs on my drill, maybe a bit less with all the friction, but do that for 5 minutes. Then reconnect plug and lead and look at the spark.... As if by magic it will have increased.
The physicist out there will tell me how, something do with EMF I am sure, all I know is, it works? Try it and see.
Below is the answer! I'm indebted to Fred Holmwood for troubling to tell me why it works, thanks Fred.
The re-magnetising works thus:
The principle of a magneto is that you have two closely wound coils, the primary (low voltage) and the secondary (high voltage)
The flywheel spinning round passes magnets close to the coil core (soft iron) and induces a small voltage, I don't know what in the case of a British Seagull but probably around six volts, this voltage causes current to flow through the contacts to earth and back into the other end of the primary coil. This creates a magnetic field around the coil.
On the contacts opening the current ceases and the magnetic field, caused by the current, collapses.
This collapsing field induces a voltage in the secondary coil which is in the order of several thousands of volts, you have a spark!
When the flywheel magnets become weak through lack of use or knocks you are unable to pull the cord fast enough to produce a voltage in the primary.
If you then apply a drive which is faster rotation the weak residual magnetism induces a weak voltage which in turn induces a small magnetic field the combination of residual and induced produces a larger voltage which induces a larger voltage which in turn induces a slightly larger magnetic field the combination of residual and induced, slightly larger, produces a larger voltage and so on until the unit is running at saturation level, you can now produce a spark!!
Having said that the first move must be to clean the contacts in order to allow the first very weak current to flow without undue resistance!
If you ever come across one that does not respond it probably means that the flywheel magnets are totally devoid of any magnetic field, this could be rectified by passing a small external current through the primary winding, but this isn't as simple as it sounds as you need to know what current to apply and each magnet in the flywheel needs stimulating!
In practice a lantern battery from earth to the coil side of the contact breaker, points open, for a second or two only would probably induce sufficient to get you going again.
Hope I have kept it understandable!!
Regards
Fred Holmwood
Yes this trick does work, here is a letter from a happy British Seaguller to underline it.....
Hi, My name is John Russouw I live in Cape Town, South Africa. My dad recently got his hands on a old seagull (engine no THC 347 L5). I am not sure, but according to your charts it should be a 102 Plus long shaft model, but I stand corrected. We got the engine from a fisherman in Betty's Bay. He told us that he got the engine from another guy and that it hasn't ran in years, but if we got it going we could have it for a R1000. So we took it home and spent hours trying to get the thing to start. We cleaned her up drained the fuel tank cleaned the carburetor out, replaced the spark plug, still nothing. Then we realized that there was no spark. So we automatically assumed that the coil or the condenser had packed up. So we decided to replace the coil and condenser, but before we done that, I suggested we surf the net to get some advice. That's when I stumbled on to your website and thank goodness I did. I read the article about recharging the coil, by spinning the engine with a drill. We had nothing to loose so we tried it. I ran the drill for about 4 mins. We were astonished when the old seagull sprung to life after only one pull of the cord. Me and my dad were so happy we ran to the bar fridge to open up a cold beer to celebrate our success. I'd just like to commend you on a excellent web site. Thanks to your information our seagull is purring like a kitten again
See more below...I am getting a spark, but only a very weak one, should I replace the coil? Common fault with early villiers ignitions. (Wipac uses different magnets and I have not found one that has lost magnetism as yet.)
No, but here is a trick I learnt years ago and thought I had mentioned on these pages already, but no. NOTE, FOR Villiers POINTS IGN ONLY. If the spark is weak, it could be that the magnetism in the flywheel is low. You can get flywheels 're-magnetised', at a cost, if you can find someone who has the kit. But first try this:
Spin the engine up with an electric drill! First remove the plug, then fit a socket to the flywheel nut and a drill to a socket set extension. I use a rechargeable electric drill, but any will do. (reduce the friction, squirt a little oil into the bore and carb, to lubricate the motor.)
Spin the motor up, I recon I get to 1500 revs on my drill, maybe a bit less with all the friction, but do that for 5 minutes. Then reconnect plug and lead and look at the spark.... As if by magic it will have increased.
The physicist out there will tell me how, something do with EMF I am sure, all I know is, it works? Try it and see.
Below is the answer! I'm indebted to Fred Holmwood for troubling to tell me why it works, thanks Fred.
The re-magnetising works thus:
The principle of a magneto is that you have two closely wound coils, the primary (low voltage) and the secondary (high voltage)
The flywheel spinning round passes magnets close to the coil core (soft iron) and induces a small voltage, I don't know what in the case of a British Seagull but probably around six volts, this voltage causes current to flow through the contacts to earth and back into the other end of the primary coil. This creates a magnetic field around the coil.
On the contacts opening the current ceases and the magnetic field, caused by the current, collapses.
This collapsing field induces a voltage in the secondary coil which is in the order of several thousands of volts, you have a spark!
When the flywheel magnets become weak through lack of use or knocks you are unable to pull the cord fast enough to produce a voltage in the primary.
If you then apply a drive which is faster rotation the weak residual magnetism induces a weak voltage which in turn induces a small magnetic field the combination of residual and induced produces a larger voltage which induces a larger voltage which in turn induces a slightly larger magnetic field the combination of residual and induced, slightly larger, produces a larger voltage and so on until the unit is running at saturation level, you can now produce a spark!!
Having said that the first move must be to clean the contacts in order to allow the first very weak current to flow without undue resistance!
If you ever come across one that does not respond it probably means that the flywheel magnets are totally devoid of any magnetic field, this could be rectified by passing a small external current through the primary winding, but this isn't as simple as it sounds as you need to know what current to apply and each magnet in the flywheel needs stimulating!
In practice a lantern battery from earth to the coil side of the contact breaker, points open, for a second or two only would probably induce sufficient to get you going again.
Hope I have kept it understandable!!
Regards
Fred Holmwood
Yes this trick does work, here is a letter from a happy British Seaguller to underline it.....
Hi, My name is John Russouw I live in Cape Town, South Africa. My dad recently got his hands on a old seagull (engine no THC 347 L5). I am not sure, but according to your charts it should be a 102 Plus long shaft model, but I stand corrected. We got the engine from a fisherman in Betty's Bay. He told us that he got the engine from another guy and that it hasn't ran in years, but if we got it going we could have it for a R1000. So we took it home and spent hours trying to get the thing to start. We cleaned her up drained the fuel tank cleaned the carburetor out, replaced the spark plug, still nothing. Then we realized that there was no spark. So we automatically assumed that the coil or the condenser had packed up. So we decided to replace the coil and condenser, but before we done that, I suggested we surf the net to get some advice. That's when I stumbled on to your website and thank goodness I did. I read the article about recharging the coil, by spinning the engine with a drill. We had nothing to loose so we tried it. I ran the drill for about 4 mins. We were astonished when the old seagull sprung to life after only one pull of the cord. Me and my dad were so happy we ran to the bar fridge to open up a cold beer to celebrate our success. I'd just like to commend you on a excellent web site. Thanks to your information our seagull is purring like a kitten again
