Tom Issit do your job help and keep us excempt ple

T

traceyandsteve

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Please Please Please, help to not let the red be changed, for the sakes of all those that are trying to get bigger boats for the family ie Greg2 and others just hanging on to what they have go.. face it what would realy be gained from higher taxes??( to us)

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Leave the guy alone, he's already doing a good job!

As for what would be gained, well it would make us petrol heads happier to see the smug look on your faces removed. I've lost track of the number of times some fool has told me I'm mad running petrols.

No one ever said boating was cheap, and I work hard to earn the money that I spend on my hobbies. But it does nob me off when I'm filling my boat with unleaded at 85p a litre to have a boat next to me that worth more than my house and business combined, reaping the benefits of what can only be described as a very unfair tax.

Although it's a lovely thought that the correct thing to do would be to have "red petrol", common sense says that it would never work. So if I cant have cheap fuel, why should the diesel brigade.

Whilst I'm in moaning mode, it would be nice to see some emmision regs for boats as well. Nothing worse than the acrid smoke from a gin palace on start up!

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Somehow, I dont think "trying to get a bigger boat for the family" is going to cut much ice with Grabber Gordon. There are only two basic arguments against the abolition of the red diesel concession for boaters
One, will it cost more to collect and administer reliefs to commercial boaters than it raises in tax? Given that the red diesel concession does'nt exist in most of the rest of Europe and given that Gordon is attacking every tax loophole he can find at the moment, I would'nt hold out much hope on this one
Two, how will it affect jobs in the boating industry? This is a mite more promising but given that most of the output from the UK's big 4 boatbuilders goes overseas, the argument may not hold much water. We can only hope that the BMIF and RYA can mount effective arguments on this one. Of course it would help greatly if Oundle/Kidderminster/Plymouth and Poole were marginal parliamentary seats, given an election in the next 2 years
There is no moral justification for leisure boaters (however small their boat) to receive this concession. We just have to hope that the financial and job arguments hold sway but I would'nt hold your breath. Enjoy it whilst you can

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Well I had to smile when I read this...

Whilst I'm in moaning mode, it would be nice to see some emmision regs for boats as well. Nothing worse than the acrid smoke from a gin palace on start up!

I'll join you on the emission regs - 'cos I'm still running LPG. I'd better not tempt the hand of fate by being smug though!!


<hr width=100% size=1>Madoc Yacht Club
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk>http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk</A>
 
Re: Tom Isitt do your job help and keep us excempt

With respect, it's not my job. My job is produce MBY 12 times a year, on time and under budget. But MBY is firmly behind the RYA's campaign to save red diesel and we will continue to support them. Yes, I occasionally wrestle with my conscience, but I would never let it get in the way of self-interest and what's best for me me me me!

So rest assured...MBY will be doing all it can to preserve cheap fuel for the readership.

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I cannot argue with this, in which case Red diesel looks doomed, but there may be a couple of issues you have not considered:

1) The exemption for (poor) farmers is likely to continue, in which case the fisherman will argue they are also farmers, so how will they differentiate between the fishermen and the leisure users?

2) Just maybe, the government will want to preserve this anomlay with the rest of Europe to prove we are not part of Europe. Vive la difference!

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One other point to the argument is that, around the coast of england many commercial vessels dont rely on residual fuel but only burn red diesel!. Not just the fisherman. You have to look a little further afield to see the consequences. If Tax is increased on red diesel many smaller ferry operators around the coast would have no option of passing the cost on the customer in the form of increased ticket prices (keeping in mind the ferry business is an extremely competitive enviroment where some operators cant afford to 'absorb' the increase fuel cost.). Many coastal vessels transporting goods around the coast also only burn red diesel meaning a hike in shipping prices for basic goods such as timber,bulk aggregates, grain etc..Obviously the knock on effect would be an increase in tariff to the consignee. Many offshore support vessel operators serving the north sea oil industry would also suffer with many possibly going out of business. To be honest i dont quite understand the logic of taxing 'the red', What are the excuses?, Enviromental reasons?, legislation is already in place to govern commercial vessel emmisions (on new builds above a certain Kw rating) and many engine manufacturers are developing marine diesels running on LNG. All this without any threats from the government to increase the tax on red diesel. In my humble opinion this tax,should it come into force, will be too difficult to administer (not to mention justify) and anyway, why should we pay for G.Brown mistakes by giving him more of our hard earned money?

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Re: Tom Isitt do your job help and keep us excempt

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

So rest assured...MBY will be doing all it can to preserve cheap fuel for the readership.

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Leading magazine editor writes "Why should the wealthiest members of society get the cheapest fuel?"

No more help like that please.


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Item 2) dream on, I think!. Item 1) Yes, its going to be very difficult to differentiate between those boaters that use red diesel for leisure only and those that use it for commercial purposes. I guess commercial boaters will have to apply for an exemption to allow them to buy red diesel or maybe red diesel will be be phased out altogether for marine use and commercial boaters will have to reclaim the tax from HM C & E in the same way as a VAT return
Raises interesting questions though. If you did a bit of charter with your boat, would you be able to use red diesel? Also, whats to stop you filling up from a farmer's supply; after all, the red dye would already be in the fuel system from previous fill-ups

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I have already considered filling up from a local farmer and although the red diesel does dye the components red, it is obvious when you dip the tank if you are using red or not. Whilst you may be able to get away with the contamination argument for a few months I think they would soon find this argument difficult to justify.

Back to the differentiation between commercial and non-commercial users of red at sea, then I am sure that if you told the average fisherman or ferryman that they had the choice of either finding a supply of cheap red or using the normal white that was x times the price they would soon find a supply of red.

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Red diesel supplier

I guess that its time for a few barges to appear out of the three mile limit ? Do I fancy bunkering in a 6 ? no way! (a "Diesel caroline" may be?) would it be worth the investment ? it may attract customers from both sides of the channel? and could be advertised in the MBYand PBO so revenue for Tom and friends too !

Rob

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rejuvanu.com>RejuVanu</A>
 
Re: Red diesel supplier

I was thinking of that myself. Anyone remember Mr Diesel who used to dispense diesel from a tug on the River Itchen. He could park himself outside the limit on fine days. Sounds like a good business to me

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Re: Red diesel supplier

I guess that C&E would have to find a way to reduce/inhibit their loss of revenue, by, say, preventing re entry to the tug for bunkering itself, unless it was sealed and registered by them prior to entry, etc, etc, paperwork to allow exportation ( to where, the EEC?) costs may esculate and have to be passed on???

Rob

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.rejuvanu.com>RejuVanu</A>
 
Re: Red diesel supplier

This happened in riviera south of france , big tanker filled up a load of boats miles out at sea dead cheap. But the customs men then fined returning boats the equiv of the duty on an entire tank, ouch.

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Re: Red diesel supplier

Not if red diesel was still available to commercial users. Tug would serve commercial users during the week inshore and park itself offshore for us at the weekend
Of course, the other thing worth doing would be to nip across to Alderney for duty free fuel. Only 60miles from the Needles, lash a few plastic containers in the cockpit in addition to topping up tanks and its white diesel so no probs with Plod

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Re: Red diesel supplier

Ah memories, my first ever fill of the ruby red came from Mr Diesel. Is he still about?

Unfortutately Mike it's the red stuff in Alderney, need to go to Peter Port for the white stuff.

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Re: Red diesel supplier

Why, isnt Alderney part of the Bailiwick of Guernsey? Thats odd. Filled up there loads of times and never noticed it was red
No, I have'nt seen Mr Diesel and his wife for maybe 4 years. I think they packed it in and retired. A nicer couple you could'nt hope to meet

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You are right, it is a very unfair tax. But that does not mean that us oil burners should pay more tax, it means that you petrol heads shouldn't be paying as much tax as you have to at present and if I were Primeminister I would abolish tax on petrol for non-road use. So there, vote for me.

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Re: Red diesel supplier

In my home port us yachties have to pay twice the price fishermen pay already i,ts now cheaper to buy our Diesel in France but we save the day on Plonk so far!

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