Toilet discharge hose (once again, sorry)

gandy

gandy

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Hi,

This wasn't one of the jobs I was expecting problems with, but I am totally failing to fit the new "Leesan" hose onto the Blakes seacock.

The hose (marked 38mm) has a static internal diameter of just over 36mm. The hose fitting on the seacock has an outer diameter of 41mm. After a number of fruitless sessions trying to get it to fit I have to face up to the fact that the hose is simply too small. By heating it right up I can just about stretch it to that size, but its then too floppy to be forced down the fitting. The best I managed was to get the hose on for about 1/4in, but at that stage it developed a split.

First question. Does the panel think that the hose should be able to stretch that far? If so I could do with some suggestions, I've tried hot water, fan heater, conical wooden bung,

Second question. Does anyone know where I can get hose with a larger ID? All the suppliers I've checked have the same size, nominal 38mm ID. The connector at the SL400 toilet is 40mm diameter, so the same size hose should fit at both ends.

Thanks in advance,
Does anyone know
 
Gaelforce in Inverness is as good a bet as any, or ASAP supplies mail order.

Re getting it on - by the pipe going floppy, it indicates that you've got it hot enough. Use plenty of washing up liquid as a lubricant, both inside the pipe and on the skin fitting.

NB!!! You need to heat the skin fitting up to the same temperature as well, or it will suck all the heat out of the plastic pipe VERY quickly.
 
My sympathies - nothing worse than a 5 minute job that goes all wrong. Basically 38mm is 1.5" in old money as I'm sure you know so your nominal 1.5" hose should fit what sounds like a nominal 1.5" seacock. So assuming that just finding another source of hose (or changing the seacock) won't solve the problem you may need to work some more on the hose.

I've had that floppy hose problem too, and the solution is of course to only heat the end bit. Easier said than done. But if you are using the hot water method then just dunk it in to the required depth. If you are going for a hairdrier then wrap a damp cloth around the hose leaving the 'working' end free. As your other poster has suggested heating the seacock too helps, though it's more easily said than done unless you have lots of room and another pair of hands. For lube, I prefer washing up liquid as it's easy to wipe away surplus.

Good luck.
 
Just replaced a loo too, we found that a similar hose from a different chandlers fitted easily with warm water whilst the first hose had the same problems you are having. Hoses similar but different size and materials, both marked sanitory etc. Also the hose cools quickly when you put it on the fitting, you could close the valve and try warm water in the valve too.

Pete
 
Cheers.

Obviously I can persevere with hose I've got, but I'm unconvinced that it'll ever stretch the 5mm needed. Leesan's data sheet says don't stretch more that 1.5mm, and that's kind of supported by the fact that it split when I did get it started over the spigot once.

I don't see why the hose needs to be so undersized. Surely if its natural diameter was an easy fit over the hose tail then it would still be secure once the clips are done up. The only problem is finding 40 or 41mm hose.

ASAP Supplies only has 38 or 51mm in sanitary hose. OK - I can forget sanitary, any (decent) hose will have to do if I can get it to fit, but even then the choice seems to 38mm then up to 44 or 45.
 
use a hot air blower and a round wooden taper, wear gloves, heat up the hose untill its malable, squirt some fairy up liquid inside the hose and over the taper and slide the taper inside the hose to open it up, twisting as you push. Let it cool down then remove the taper. Put the pipe over the seacock with sealent and again heat the pipe again, the pipe will shring dwn to the size of the seacock. keep hold of the pipe to stop it from kinking or distorting untill it cools, job done, fix hose clips.
 
The Leesan stuff is good, but as you have discovered, it doesn't stretch much. In my experience it takes a whole lot of patience. I used a hot air gun on low setting, stretch the end with a wooden taper, let it cool and try again. Washing up liquid is the best lubricant. I suspect the hose split because you overdid the heating. If the hose goes floppy you have gone too far and compromised the hose wall integrity and it will distort and may well leak. Take your time. Another option may be to use an adapter. Tek Tanks do them. Good luck!
 
I did mine the other week, I screwed a 38mm hose tail into the seacock, heated the san hose in a cup of hot water and it slid on a treat. Perhaps a hose tail might be a solution for you too.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hi,

This wasn't one of the jobs I was expecting problems with, but I am totally failing to fit the new "Leesan" hose onto the Blakes seacock.

The hose (marked 38mm) has a static internal diameter of just over 36mm. The hose fitting on the seacock has an outer diameter of 41mm.

[/ QUOTE ]

I bow to others superior knowledge, but from my ignorant perspective, this cant be right, or can it?

http://www.blakes-lavac-taylors.co.uk/blakes_seacocks.htm

This suggests that the seacock has a diameter of 38mm, but it doesnt say whether this is internal or external.

The hose you have removed with an external diameter of 41mm could have an internal diameter of 38mm, (with 1.5mm walls?)

http://www.leesan.co.uk/products.php?mode=display&id=221&page_id=10

http://www.leesan.co.uk/bundles/hose_plumbing_fittings_tank_seals_lr.pdf

This suggests that your lee san hose should have an internal bore of 38mm,

So it should just slide on.

I think I would be calling Blakes or Leesan or both, probably Lee San first.

Cheers

Richard
 
Yes, a call to Leesan is planned for this morning.

I measured the outer diameter of the Blakes seacock as 41mm. Obviously it's ribbed, and I measured the high points because that's what the hose will have to stretch over. I notice the spec for Blakes doesn't actually give that dimension. Instead thay say it "fits 1 1/2" (38mm) hose"

I think the last straw on this one must be the Leesan hose being under size. Its definitely not 38mm. Maybe if it only had to be stretched by 3mm it would be much easier.
 
I don't think Leesan are going to be much help. Their position is that it should fit, and if it doesn't then its most likely my seacock is too big (although they couldn't tell me what size the seacock is supposed to be).

No special comment about why their "38mm" hose seems smaller than 38mm. I'm to send them a sample, and the guy said that if its smaller than normal they can send out a replacement. Cynically I'm pretty sure he's just going to say the hose is OK.

No real answer as to why they specify not to stretch the hose more than 1.5mm, yet still say it should fit.
 
Had exactly the same problem. A ten minute hose replacement turned into 2 bruising weekends work.

In the end we used reinforced water pipe in the seacock, had a stainless steel connector made up, used this at the highest point to connect the white toilet hose down the heads pump.

All this was of course made as difficult as possible having to work through a foot square inspection hatch.

I must say it’s great to read your post as I thought at first I was just being incompetent (as usual).
 
[ QUOTE ]
I must say it’s great to read your post as I thought at first I was just being incompetent (as usual).

[/ QUOTE ]Maybe we could form a self-help group. I suspect that like you I'll end up using non-sanitary hose, which is a shame because it probably means the job coming round again sooner.
 
Only use Hair Dryer, any thing hotter will ruin pipe and I would never put sealant on the pipe, 2 clips are much better.
As I have said before, I have same toilet and outlet, I dismantle every year and generally have little trouble putting all back in order.
Yes agree, warm end of pipe and insert round plug to open up inside dia of pipe, but don't be to rash or the pipe will split.
 
i had the same problem and after long fight with the hose i have done a prearrangements - what i mean ? extend the hose diameter to the correct size before instalation - use the steel pipe with same diameter as required, heat the pipe and the hose + lubricants ! once fit, leave a few minutes to cool and take out - the hose, more or less, keep the new dimmensions and is far more easy to fit on tiny place !
 
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