toilet calcium blocked - any tips for replacing the hose

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lazarette

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Ugh, the discharge line on our sea toilet is completely blocked with what looks like kettle limescale. Theres no exit of water from the bowl at all, so I don't think I can get rid of it with acid.

Are there any caveats I should be aware of when replacing the discharge line ? It leads to a Gate Valve seacock, and Im nervous of changing the house! I presume I'm correct in

- close the seacock
- Unscrew the jubilee clip and remove/replace hose
- retighten jubilee clip.
- done

Or should I be using sealant or something similar when attaching the new line ?
Sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm a little concerned about sinking our boat /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Also the current discharge line has no anti-syphon filter - how on earth do you install a filter to heavy grade marine house ?

Any advice most welcome on this, the one downer of boat living!

Angus
 
We did ours while in the water. Have a bung handy. No problems removing old hose but we encontered difficulty getting new hose onto toilet outlet pipe and onto sea cock. lots of fairy liquid and lots of sweat. Eventually achieved by dismantling the sea cock and removing the nozzle. Thus achieving the reconnection in the cockpit rather than with your head in a cupboard. easy job to screw back in with a crew member turning the new pipe as you reconnect to the seacock. I doubt if the force required would have been a good idea with the nozzle in situ....

Our syphon was created by an extra metre of pipe being looped sufficient so as to sit above the waterline when heeled.
 
I think you should have the new hose (with possibly new clips) cut and ready to fit. Seacocks always/ frequently leak a bit or more even! even when closed!! Can be exciting!

If you have mains power then a cheap little hot air gun - used with discretion will help get the new hose on together with Vaseline or engine grease. The gun will also heat the pipe you want to get off . Can be difficult. Better not to cut it in case you need to put it back on fast cos the sea cock is in a really poor state!

I never use sealant - not quite sure about the anti - siphon filter - I have never used one on any outlet heads hose.. There is a valve in pump - 'joker' (called something like that) which is a one way valve - lets the contents out into the pipe but they cannot return..

speaking of which you might want to look at all the rubber valves and see if you need to replace them all with a service kit - (always expensive but nicer to do with the toilet 'empty' than full and not working)

Finally a spoonful of vinegar in the system once a week should help to stop the pipes getting full of limescale which is caused by the mixture of urine and salt water - I think!

Michael
 
A 12% solution of hydrochloric acid in water should dissolve it. So will several applications of undiluted white vinegar. Worth trying before replacing the hoses, anyway. Or you might do what some owners do: remove the hose, beat it on the dock to knock all the scale out, the put the same hose back.

And a cupful of white vinegar flushed through the hose once a week will prevent it in the future.

If you do have to replace the hose, warming it a bit with a blow dryer will make it much easier to get off the fittings. When you replace, don't use any sealant...each connection should be double-clamped, with screws on opposite sides of the hose, or at least 90 degres apart.

A vented loop (anti-siphon device) needs to be at least 6-8" above waterline at any angle of heel...which puts it at least 3' above the toilet on most sailboats. That will require more hose than a straight line to the thru-hull, so you'll need to measure. The closer the toilet it is, the better.
 
I would replace the hose. You can break up the scale by taking off the hose and beating against a wall, but it is likely that if it that far gone, there is also the risk of the hose wall going permeable and becoming rather odorous.

After happy weeks of pipe fitting during our marathon holding tank / Lavac system installation, my preferred method of getting pipes on is as follows.

Hot air gun is essential but has to be used carefully because if you overheat and the pipe wall collapses, your have to chuck it away and start with a new piece. Cheap guns generally have just one setting, which can be too hot. I have a Bosch two setting gun which is not much more expensive and certainly more reliable. When the pipe starts to go supple, use two sizes of those emergency wooden bungs to stretch the mouth of the pipe. Take your time and be patient. For the final fitting, lavish lots of washing up liquid on the spigot, heat the pipe up with the gun and squeeze it on. Dont forget to put the clips on first!

Incidentally, I don't like gate valves on boats ( Nigel Calder is more forceful about this). Next time out of the water, I would consider replacing the skin fitting
 
I think the above is generally good advice but it is easy to overdo it with a heat gun and danage the hose (see previous threads). The best way is to put the end of the hose in recently boiled water for a couple of minutes (from a kettle or a wallpaper steamer).
 
I woudnt use vaseline or engine grease as they can effect the hose, I have always used silicon grease and have had no probs. over many years.I was told to always pump 20 times after having a pee,so that only water sits in the pipe.I always pump this amount before leaving boat.
 
dip the end in very hot water for a minute or so prior to fitting is an easy method, possibly lot less risk of damage too and is effective imho for fitting any flexy plastic pipery.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I was told to always pump 20 times after having a pee,so that only water sits in the pipe.I always pump this amount before leaving boat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pumping 5 or 50 x in the wet mode will leave sea water sitting in the line...and it's actually sea water calcium carbonates--and some waste that's become caught by the rough surface the buildup creates (waste is actually a bit greasy...it has to be snagged on something to build up)--that cause the buildup in the discharge line. Put some clean fresh water in the bowl and pump in the dry mode to push al the sea water out...then follow with a cupful of undiluted white vinegar...also pumped all the way through in the dry mode.

You'll never have a buildup again.
 
One could always take the fresh water hose of the pontoon and shove it down the head then pump a few gallons of fresh water through the head. - hint, don't use the same hose to top off your fresh water tanks afterwards.

Plan "B" which I prefer is to make up a plug for the head to seal the bottom of the bowl and attach a short length of hose to it (going through the plug) with a coupling to connect to the pressurised mains (pontoon hose). This way one can flush through without any problem and without sticking the hose into the bowl.
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hammer.thumb.gif
"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
 
"Our syphon was created by an extra metre of pipe being looped sufficient so as to sit above the waterline when heeled. "

Correct, that would make a great syphon!

An anti-syphon valve at the top of the loop, above the heeled waterline would cure this.
 
I had a similar problem a couple of years ago. Took the pipe off, stuck a hose pipe on the end, turned it on and kept bending the pipe. all the calcium came out and the pipe is still clear today.
 
[ QUOTE ]
"Our syphon was created by an extra metre of pipe being looped sufficient so as to sit above the waterline when heeled. "

Correct, that would make a great syphon!

An anti-syphon valve at the top of the loop, above the heeled waterline would cure this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, it wouldn't... 'cuz it's not a siphon that causes water to flood the bowl underway while heeled, it's due to water being PUSHED up an open through-hull by the pressure of water against the hull--an effect known as "ram water." A vented loop/anti-siphon device won't prevent that...it can only break a siphon started by water being PULLED through a line...it has no effect on liquid being pushed through a line. Making sure the toilet is left in the "dry" mode will prevent water from flooding the bowl via the intake, but people are fallible. The joker valve in the discharge--provided it's relatively new...not so worn that the slit has become a hole--will slow it down a bit, but won't prevent it. The only sure cure: keep the seacocks closed while underway except when the toilet is actually in use.

Btw...the valve at the top of loop isn't what breaks a siphon...the hole that the valve fits into can do that. The valve is a one-way valve that only allows air INTO a line, nothing out...so it's main function to prevent water or waste from squirting OUT the hole.
 
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