Tips for using a spinnaker with a crew of 2 please

[stevecray]

If the weather is OK this weekend, I am thinking of using my spinnaker for the first time on my current boat and looking for some tips. Whilst I have often raced with a spinnaker on other people’s boats of a similar size to mine (34’) this has always been as part of a race crew of 6 or 7 and this weekend there will be just 2 of us. We are both reasonably experienced / capable and have sailed together 2 handed with a spinnaker on a much smaller boat so we are not clueless! Any tips on how best to manage it short handed on a boat of this size? I do have a snuffer and an autohelm which I hope will help.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Use the autohelm! Make sure its not blowing old boots. One of you will have to manage the guy and sheet and one will have to do the foredeck and hoist. The snuffer will help, but you can manage without. I have flown a kite singlehanded but its hard work!

 

[savageseadog]

I would suggest using (if you don't already) a lazy sheet, lazy guy.
Have a sharp knife to hand /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Lakesailor]

wear gloves, or take ice packs.

 

[jb2006]

I agree - use the autopilot - use the lazy sheet and lazy guy - end to end gybe the pole. Should be able to drop the kite with both of you in the cockpit if you leave the pole up resting against the forestay,and dump the guy while the two of you bundle the kite straight down the companionway. Drop the pole after its all over. Have fun

 

[boguing]

Don't know if it's masthead or fractional.

Masthead, use dip pole and lazys. Fractional, sheets only, end for end gybing, and blocks on the sheets to pull them down to become guys.

Here's how I'd do the set. Spi bag halfway along lee rail between shrouds and bow. Three lines clipped on. (Bag also clipped on!).

When you get to the weather mark/event trigger, get the pole up, with downhaul set for the probable correct position.

(This is entirely dependent on dip pole/end for end choice - Dip will be pole end up and downhaul, e for e should be bridles)

Crew pulls the sheet back and cleats it to roughly where you think it will be when the spi is up and filled. (Forwards for a run, back for a close reach).

Steer up to a moderate reach (60 to 90 degrees) if you have to. Helm hoists the spi and calls up when it's right up.

Crew then pulls the guy back. This will pull the sail out from the lee of the jib/genoa where it has been happily hanging. It should then fill with a snap.

Drop. If you have conventional foot on main, easiest back to main hatch if you're reaching, poss forehatch on a run.

If the main is loose footed, consider the 'letterbox drop'. Bring the spi under the main but over the boom, down through the companionway. Why? Because the boom is nice and smooth and you really don't need to worry about ripping the sail on all the bits we screw to our boats.

Get hold of the sheet, possibly with a harness line if you're single sheeting, lazy guy if not. Either crew goes up front and trips the guy shackle, or just let the guy run controlled but free. Helm gradually eases halyard to match the rate that crew is pulling it in at.

Finally. Knots on guys/sheets. Common practice is 'no knots'. I disagree. A slipped figure of eight is what I use, and have never had one jam. Maybe a slipped figure of sixteen (an eight with one more twist) if it's really windy.

Far rather know that I have something that I need to undo than face losing the sheet or guy accidentally.

 

[stevecray]

Thanks all for responses. FYI, it is a mast head rig with a baby stay, pole has bridles and I do have lazy guys/sheets, so I guess I will be end to ending it, but with the inconvenience of having to take it around the stay. The suggested techniques for getting it down by tripping it at the guy whilst pulling it down the hatch by the lazy guy is the method I am used to from racing Sigma 33’s, though I am hoping to use the snuffer to take the hard work out of this – well you can hope!

 

[Adonnante]

As your able to use a snuffer try a light line on the tack snapshackle pin (it usually has a hole thro the pull end of the plunger) and just prior to dropping make it fast with only a little slack to the mast somewhere. When your ready to snuff the spin release the guy and the load is transfered onto the plunger pin releasing the snapshackle. With the forward crew at the mast haul on the snuffer downhaul. In windy conditions bring the lazy guy attached to the clew back into the cockpit and make it fast to keep the spinnaker behind the main. Hoisting the jib or rolling it out prior to the drop will reduce the chance of a rap around the forestay.
We regularly handle a 100m spin two handed on a 12 catamaran this way and my wife and myself are retired, so it isn't that bigger deal with practice.

 

[TigaWave]

To make the hoist easier putting it in elastic bands works well, you can do the hoist from the cockpit and wait until you are ready to inflate it by giving a sharp tug on the sheet.

To drop quickly chuck the halyard in the water and trail it behind the boat, the friction from the water is just right to stop it dropping straight into the water and it lets any twists out allowing the rope a clear run.

Otherwise it shouldn't be a problem, snuffers can help but it does mean you have to be on the fore deck to lift them, bands allow everything to be done in the cockpit, which I prefer just in case you need to over ride the auto helm.

 

[jamesjermain]

I would second teh elastic band system theough I have only used it a couple of times. Get a bucket, cut the bottom out, put many ebands round it, pull the head through the bucket and slip a band off over the sail at intervals of a few feet. You can do this until you reach the foot if you like, or go the whole hog and do the head until you reach the middle then do the two clews.

I would also try to launch the spinnaker as much down wind as possible so the sail is blanketed by the main until you are reacy to set. If you set it on a reach and the autopilot is in control, the boat may well broach as the sail fills and before anyone can get to the helm.

Actually, one other tip. When I am shorthanded, long distance racing, when dropping the sail, I take the lazy sheet and pull it down hard to a strong point amidships (say the amidships cleat) so the leech is tight. I then walk forward and trip the guy. The sail now flies out to leeward harmlessly and can be lowered at leisure using the lazy sheet which is within easy reach. This was taught to me by the current RYA Yachtmaster Candidate of the Year - a distinguished racing yachtsman of many years standing in the Solent and elsewhere. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Colvic Watson]

Firstly let me say that I love tinkering with things, finding news ways of making stuff work and I sail partly because i like pulling bits of string. But having read all the above posts (very helpful and comprehensive) I am absolutely certain that I will never ever try to fly a spinnaker! Boy does it seem like hard work e.g.
[ QUOTE ]
I would second teh elastic band system theough I have only used it a couple of times. Get a bucket, cut the bottom out, put many ebands round it, pull the head through the bucket and slip a band off over the sail at intervals of a few feet. You can do this until you reach the foot if you like, or go the whole hog and do the head until you reach the middle then do the two clews.


[/ QUOTE ]

 

[flaming]

[ QUOTE ]
I would also try to launch the spinnaker as much down wind as possible so the sail is blanketed by the main until you are reacy to set. If you set it on a reach and the autopilot is in control, the boat may well broach as the sail fills and before anyone can get to the helm.

Actually, one other tip. When I am shorthanded, long distance racing, when dropping the sail, I take the lazy sheet and pull it down hard to a strong point amidships (say the amidships cleat) so the leech is tight. I then walk forward and trip the guy. The sail now flies out to leeward harmlessly and can be lowered at leisure using the lazy sheet which is within easy reach. This was taught to me by the current RYA Yachtmaster Candidate of the Year - a distinguished racing yachtsman of many years standing in the Solent and elsewhere. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Completely agree with that. Would add that it's best not to furl the genoa, at least not entirely, when setting. Two reasons, firstly it provides a lovely lee to get the kite up in and secondly it eliminates the posibility of wrapping it round the forestay. Ditto when dropping.

 

[doris]

Confused

Sorry James.I'm confused.
<Actually, one other tip. When I am shorthanded, long distance racing, when dropping the sail, I take the lazy sheet and pull it down hard to a strong point amidships (say the amidships cleat) so the leech is tight. I then walk forward and trip the guy. The sail now flies out to leeward harmlessly and can be lowered at leisure using the lazy sheet which is within easy reach.>

Do you mean the lazy guy. If so quite agree.

 

[jamesjermain]

Re: Confused

[ QUOTE ]
Do you mean the lazy guy. If so quite agree.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, I mean the lazy sheet - at least I mean the dangly rope attached to the corner not attached to the pole.

 

[flaming]

Re: Confused

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you mean the lazy guy. If so quite agree.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, I mean the lazy sheet - at least I mean the dangly rope attached to the corner not attached to the pole.

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case I withdraw my agreement. I would always use the lazy guy, then blow the working guy and it'll fly like a flag.

 

[stevecray]

Re: Confused

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you mean the lazy guy. If so quite agree.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, I mean the lazy sheet - at least I mean the dangly rope attached to the corner not attached to the pole.

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case I withdraw my agreement. I would always use the lazy guy, then blow the working guy and it'll fly like a flag.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are both talking about the same thing? ie the "dangly rope attached to the corner not attached to the pole" would be the lazy guy, on the basis that the active guy is the one attached to the corner of the sail at the pole making the sheet on the pole side lazy, so I think from your description James, you meant the lazy guy?

 

[Colvic Watson]

Re: Confused

[ QUOTE ]

I think you are both talking about the same thing? ie the "dangly rope attached to the corner not attached to the pole" would be the lazy guy, on the basis that the active guy is the one attached to the corner of the sail at the pole making the sheet on the pole side lazy, so I think from your description James, you meant the lazy guy?

[/ QUOTE ] See what I mean /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[flaming]

Re: Confused

Well that's definitely what I was talking about!

I guess I just assumed that such a well respected yachting journalist would know the difference between a lazy sheet and a lazy guy! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[jamesjermain]

Re: Confused

I was about to take issue with you but I decided to look it up first.

So OK I can eat humble pie with the best. Lazy guy it is.

 

[michael_w]

My 2p worth on short handed takedowns.

Have no truck with tripping the guy. It is never necessary, just run it instead. One of the problem with the trip is that it is dammn dangerous. You may have to climb on the pulpit and muck about with a spike or fumble for the trip line. At this point the pole springs back and wacks you neatly in the teeth/clouts you on the head/knocks you overboard.

Run the guy and you never lose control. If it is very windy, try the letterbox method. Foredeck takedown works well too. Another problem with the trip method is you have to re-reeve a lot of gear.

A good trick is to stream the halyard overboard. The friction of it dragging though the water controls the rate of decent and allows an easy kite retrival. SWMBO and I use this all the time even managing float drops, if it isn't too windy. You may need some extra drag on the halyard. My X-302 has a dishcloth tied to the bitter end.