Time to replace jackstays

[Sans Bateau]

As the title says. I like webbing jackstays, except they tend to attract dirt and need replacing on a regular basis. The alternative, wire jackstays, have the drawback of being treacherous under foot. I can though hide them down by the toe rail.

So what is the general thinking? Webbing or wire?

 

[fireball]

We have webbing ... and take them off when they're dirty and put them in the washing machine for a rinse .... I've been on a boat with wire ones once ... needed them too - as you're far more likely to go overboard!
It's ok tucking the wire ones down by the toe rail - but as soon as you clip onto it it'll come out and trip you up!

 

[prv]

I have webbing ones, but don't keep them rigged. It's generally fairly obvious whether any given day is likely to require their use, in which case they can be attached as part of the general process of securing for sea.

The vast majority of the time (for my sailing, anyway) they're not needed, so why have them rotting in the sun and collecting dirt 24/7?

Pete

 

[ghostlymoron]

I have webbing ones, but don't keep them rigged. It's generally fairly obvious whether any given day is likely to require their use, in which case they can be attached as part of the general process of securing for sea.

The vast majority of the time (for my sailing, anyway) they're not needed, so why have them rotting in the sun and collecting dirt 24/7?

Pete

Come on Pete, don't be such a tight wad. If you take them off when not sailing, they will last for years and are cheap enough anyway. I'd rather have them there when you don't need them rather than the reverse.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Wire for me every time and I have never had an issue with feet rolling off a wire jackstay, in fact I believe that its an old wifes tale, say it often enough and it is true. I have had to lean and pull hard on my wire jack stays and they felt very secure. Mine are lashed at one end, not shackled both ends.

Of course, webbing is good enough as well.

 

[flaming]

As the title says. I like webbing jackstays, except they tend to attract dirt and need replacing on a regular basis. The alternative, wire jackstays, have the drawback of being treacherous under foot. I can though hide them down by the toe rail.

So what is the general thinking? Webbing or wire?

Webbing.

All the wire ones I've ever seen were plastic coated to help protect the deck. Plastic coated wire is banned under the offshore regs for guardwires, because it hides corrosion.

So my vote is webbing. If you leave them on all the time, take the manufacturers advice on lifespan and halve it.

 

[Pinnacle]

I have webbing ones, but don't keep them rigged. It's generally fairly obvious whether any given day is likely to require their use, in which case they can be attached as part of the general process of securing for sea.

The vast majority of the time (for my sailing, anyway) they're not needed, so why have them rotting in the sun and collecting dirt 24/7?

Pete

+1

 

[prv]

Come on Pete, don't be such a tight wad.

It's not really anything to do with saving money - god knows I spend enough of it on the boat! Just that it really is unlikely for me to need them as I spend most of my time on this boat pootling around the Solent in nice weather.

You say "take them off when not sailing" - that implies that I should put them on again without fail every single time I take the boat out. Well sorry, but to do that on a calm summer evening when I've come down after work for a jolly round Southampton Water is clearly pointless. I won't be clipping onto them, so why rig them?

Conversely, every time I pull the anchor on board and wash off the chain, a flood of mud runs all along the side-decks to the scuppers beside the cockpit. A fabric barrier along the deck would catch a hearty crop of that mud, and release it bit by bit so the deck would never be clean. From there, it ends up on feet, cockpit seats, clothes, bunks, etc. Ower's Lake mud likes to travel - it's made it halfway up my staysail already.

Pete

 

[Martin_J]

Webbing for us.. although I buy a long reel then stitch (the correct stitch pattern) myself.

Take them off when unlikely to be needed. Washing - I ensure that detergent is NOT used because I want to avoid any bleaching agents or anything that might weaken them. Just use pure soap.

There used to be suggestions of using hollow webbing with a wire threaded through the middle.. I guess then you have the advantages (and disadvantages) of each but never used it this way myself.

 

[ghostlymoron]

Webbing for us.. although I buy a long reel then stitch (the correct stitch pattern) myself.

Take them off when unlikely to be needed. Washing - I ensure that detergent is NOT used because I want to avoid any bleaching agents or anything that might weaken them. Just use pure soap.

There used to be suggestions of using hollow webbing with a wire threaded through the middle.. I guess then you have the advantages (and disadvantages) of each but never used it this way myself.

Don't bother stitching - can you really be sure of your needlework. I use a simple overhand knot at each end, strong enough and looks neat and seamanlike.

 

[Sans Bateau]

Thanks guys, looks like webbing. My own thoughts now confirmed.

Martin. Dont know what or how you do the stitching, but I do know that Seateach in Emsworth used to do the stitching, and it was serious stitching!! However they had to stop selling them, now if my memory serves me right it was because the stitching did not conform to some regulation or another, but was more than likely more than adequate.

Now I'm not suggesting that your stitching is anything less than 100%, but if (big if) you had someone go over the side and the stitching did fail (in circumstances that any stitching may have failed) then the MIAB may throw the book at you. Raising the question is, is it worth doing your own?

 

[Allan]

I recently told a sailmaker that I had mine stitched by another sailmaker. He said that they should not do it. When I asked why, he said that if you just ask for webbing to be stitched it's fine, if you say they are a safety item the sailmaker should refuse. No sure if there is any truth in this.
Allan

 

[Ubergeekian]

Jumblie's are wire, but they are along the coachroof so standing on them is not an issue. Mind you, I can't recall ever having problems with a rope rolling away underfoot, so I suspect that problem is a bit of an urban (nautical?) legend.

 

[fireball]

It's no urban myth ... I've done it (rolled off a jackstay wire with plastic covering) - because the diameter is ~6-7mm and reasonably stiff it rolls easily. I didn't fall over or go off the side - but my foot wasn't where I intended it to be - which was ok that time - but not something I'd want to risk when conditions are worse.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

.... Seateach in Emsworth used to do the stitching, and it was serious stitching!! However they had to stop selling them, now if my memory serves me right it was because the stitching did not conform to some regulation or another, but was more than likely more than adequate? ....

There is an approved method of making safety lanyards for working at height. I dare say that the method complies to some design that has been tested as adequate and that the manufacturing process delivers the design intent.

I have purchased such items for drilling rigs but they were approved, compliant designs, so we did not need to specify anything. My HSE Supervisor says that there is an "EN" standard for the lanyards which may be what Seateach are referring to.

Sounds like Brussels!

 

[prv]

My HSE Supervisor says that there is an "EN" standard for the lanyards which may be what Seateach are referring to.

The MAIB report into the lad falling off Royalist mentions the requirements for harnesses and lanyards. It criticised the Sea Cadets for not using approved items, but having them knocked up by an awning maker in Gosport instead. (Of course, this wasn't actually relevant to the accident as he wasn't clipped on in the first place).

Pete

 

[fireball]

Sounds like Brussels!

Sounds like arse covering in case of litigation ... but then I'm not sure I'd be entirely comfortable manufacturing safety equipment unless I was 100% sure of it's success ... and by the time you've tested the equipment to destruction to test it ...

 

[Sans Bateau]

In the litigious world we live in... crew falls from boat....non standard EN or ISO jackstay used...MIAB gives slating....insurance Co refuses to pay out (any excuse).... dead crews family sue skipper, etc etc. Nah! get the proper gear, yes cover your derrière!

 

[KenMcCulloch]

It's no urban myth ... I've done it (rolled off a jackstay wire with plastic covering) - because the diameter is ~6-7mm and reasonably stiff it rolls easily. I didn't fall over or go off the side - but my foot wasn't where I intended it to be - which was ok that time - but not something I'd want to risk when conditions are worse.

Likewise, my pref is also for webbing for exactly this reason. An overhand loop is a great deal cheaper than stitching certainly at my local loft's rates, and just as good if you don't mind a slightly bulky knot.

 

[Martin_J]

Stitching... I knew there would be comments! The sewing machines used by someone sewing the EN 'standard' ones.. It is no different to the sewing machine I would use. The thread I buy... I know exactly where it comes from... and I know that I replace the needle for each new piece of important work to ensure it is sharp and does not damage the fibres of what I am sewing through.

The Standard I believe defines stitch pattern and thread strength.. Unless you can point to what else it defines then I defy you to spot the difference between a jackstay sewn (and the EN label removed) and one sewn by someone who never put a label on it in the first place.

How many times these days do you trust the job to someone else and they don't do it right.. or you have to take it back.. You know what I mean... Who trusted someone else to do a saildrive seal.. could you then guarantee it was done correctly or would they point out what might be about to fail?? - no... I've seen too much work done by others recently that is just not up to scratch...

BTW - I can stitch through four layers of webbing quite happily. Two layers are rather simple. TBH - It is more of a challenge sewing silk/satin and keeping the seams flat.. and making them strong enough for someone else to wear knowing they're not going to split... Think about that!