Time to consider fitting a windlass...what type?

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bluedragon

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Regular forum readers might have noticed my pre-occupation with making the whole anchoring process a lot easier on my poor old back!! Using different combinations of anchor and rode, chain stoppers, etc, are all on trial. However, the real solution is a windlass. I've just kept putting it off. So...horizontal or vertical? Electric or manual (simplicity, but doesn't it take forever?). Will I really need to change the chain to calibtrated or are some windlass type more tolerant? The yacht - 27ft long keel, approx. 3T displacement. All chain (8mm) and Delta on the bow. Goes into a chain locker via a naval-pipe. Any help in choosing / fitting much appreciated...
 
Re: Time to fit a windlass (maybe)...what type?

I'd suggest electric with manual capability. The Ideal Windlass site:www.idealwindlass.com gives advice on windlass selection. I'm not suggesting you buy an Ideal windlass, although they are excellent, but the advice given might be useful to you.
I've had an Ideal with vertical drive shaft and a Muir with a horizontal shaft - I can see no particular advantage of one configuration over the other. The Muir had the motor within the windlass body, the Ideal had the motor and gearbox hanging into the chain locker. Both worked faultlessly.
Your chain may already be adequately uniform to work; it needs to be short link to DIN 766 for most windlasses.
 
Callibrated chain - yes, it really is worth it.

Electric - yes yes yes.

Format - Horizontal, the chain drops nicely and they are easy to un-jam.

For normal use I would suggest a Lofrans Dorado 1000w and stay with 8mm chain, not an expensive option but a very capable one.
 
Like you I have suffered from back trouble and fitted a South Pacific vertical Capstan winch wich has revolutionised "A" The back" B" the anchoring bit and the winch only takes 19 amps as opposed th the usual 75 amps +. Search the net as I have forgotton the supplier,but thek make stern gear as well. Very satisfied with the gear easy to install and is only slightly less powerful than others on the market.
Will take uncalibrated chain as well.
 
Thanks for the comments and links to WWW resources. That has helped. I can see that electric is the way everyone goes these days, but in my case (limited capacity electrical system) there is a case for considering a manual windlass. The Lofrans Royal unit seems the one to get, but my concern is just how fast / slow these are? Am I correct in thinking there is no gearing, so pulling up chain will be in chunks of 6-8"? How long is needed for example to raise say 30m of chain? The mechanical advantage seems quite high, so I assume that the load at least on my boat will not be an issue. Any users of this unit out there like to comment?
 
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Like you I have suffered from back trouble and fitted a South Pacific vertical Capstan winch wich has revolutionised "A" The back" B" the anchoring bit and the winch only takes 19 amps as opposed th the usual 75 amps +. Search the net as I have forgotton the supplier,but thek make stern gear as well. Very satisfied with the gear easy to install and is only slightly less powerful than others on the market.
Will take uncalibrated chain as well.

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Found it. Made in Australia. Very low current for such units. Has anyone else fitted one of these?
 
[ QUOTE ]
South Pacific vertical Capstan winch wich has revolutionised "A" The back" B" the anchoring bit and the winch only takes 19 amps as opposed th the usual 75 amps +.

[/ QUOTE ] Now let me figure this one out..... 19AX12V=221Watts assuming 100% efficiency - must be very slow or very gutless or both.

I would go for one with at least 1000W or maybe even 1500W IMHO 221Watts of power on an anchor windlass / capstan would be as much use as a chocolate fireguard - correction - might just be OK for recovering the tender anchor /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
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[ QUOTE ]
The Lofrans Royal unit seems the one to get, but my concern is just how fast / slow these are? Am I correct in thinking there is no gearing, so pulling up chain will be in chunks of 6-8"? How long is needed for example to raise say 30m of chain? The mechanical advantage seems quite high, so I assume that the load at least on my boat will not be an issue. Any users of this unit out there like to comment?

[/ QUOTE ]They are geared insofar as they are double acting, ie they lift the chain on both the forward and backward strokes of the handle. 30m of chain in less than 2 minutes without breaking into a sweat. Max pull on chain 200kg.
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"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
sailroom <span style="color:red">The place to auction your previously loved boatie bits</span>
 
[/ QUOTE ]They are geared insofar as they are double acting, ie they lift the chain on both the forward and backward strokes of the handle. 30m of chain in less than 2 minutes without breaking into a sweat. Max pull on chain 200kg

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm...that's quicker than I thought! Goes on the list of candidates. A relatively easy to fit and cheapish solution compared to the electric variants it would seem. Do others agree?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hmm...that's quicker than I thought!

[/ QUOTE ]You should see me winding in the chain when I am in a hurry /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif - even faster......
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"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
sailroom <span style="color:red">The place to auction your previously loved boatie bits</span>
 
Our last boat was fitted as standard with a Simpson Lawrence manual windlass. It was soooo slooow I always pulled the chain up by hand unless the anchor needed breaking out of the bottom. As a result of such rare usage it eventually seized. The best thing I did was to invest in an electric windlass, it made anchoring a pleasure and no longer did we say 'oh it's probably OK or not to close or whatever', we just pressed a button to pull it in and do it again properly!

Power used is very tiny in practice as the windlass works for so short a time and most people have the engine running anyway. If it used 100A fo 3 minutes that is just 5Ah to replace, nothing in the overall sheme of things. You will need to run hefty cable from the battery (usually the engine start one is recommended as that is a 'cranking' battery but otherwise the house battery if that is dual purpose cranking/cycling), I bought our cable last time from an auto spares shop but others use welding cable as both are cheaper than chandlers xmas box prices.
 
I have had two Royals and have been very happy with them. They are cheap, easy to install and are virtually maintenance free. I generally only use the handle to break out the anchor and then haul by hand ( wearing Horrible gloves), which brings in the chain quite quickly. It is much slower using the handle. But if you have a problem back, hand hauling may not be an option. In more general terms for choice, I would go for a horizontal type with a rope drum as well as a gypsy. With electric windlasses, you do need to pick something with a bit of grunt, otherwise it is a bit of a waste of money.
 
Actually most of the time hand-hauling is OK. I use a kedge now for lunch stops (Aluminium Guardian on 7m chain and rope). This is SO easy! It's when I have the Delta down dug-in with 30m of 8mm chain and a wind / chop picking-up that my back tells me this isn't a good idea. It was even worse with a 25lbs CQR. When it did dig-in, it was a bugger to get out. But I must confess to usually being in a hurry. I'm very slow and patient whilst anchoring, but not so when leaving. Need to slow things down a bit as suggested here. So possibly I would also only use the windlass when all else fails rather than all the time. Good for the muscles anyway...beats going to the gym (except for the absence of ladies in Lycra of course /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif)
 
if you look on their webb site you will find that compared with a 300 Watt winch its slightly slower lifting speed and I find its not "Guttless" as you suggest and is a nice bit of gear useing spur gears and a magnetic brake which makes it about 90% efficient as opposed to a worm and wheel which I believe is about 60% efficent, it was the low current that I was interested in,saving on having another battery to carry around.
 
how much weight is in the anchor and ALL the chain(vertically, we sometimes make mistakes!) Will your electric windlass lift it? My SL hispeed(manual) did but the 519 didn't without my help. My lofrans tiger just gobbles it up. I wouldn't have a vertical because the manual fallback requires a winch handle and horrible back-twisting excercises which will leave you flat-out the next day. Any slow but sure manual windlass with a long handle will work as long as there is somebody at the helm when she finally breaks free. just take your time and stay calm ( or else gather it by hand in a midnight squall and marvel at the temperature of the chain as it lands on your naked lower regions - thankfully no jelly fish....)I fitted a battery for the lofrans nearby, ran thin charging leads and - heypresto, a solution for old people that is really smooth.
 
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So...horizontal or vertical?

[/ QUOTE ] Horizontal drops chain straight down the hole, so chain weight helps the grip. However, the winch must be high enough so that the chain leads upwards to the barrel. With a good sector gripping the chain (more than 90 degrees), calibrated chain becomes less important.

Also, if electric, consider how easy it is to pull by hand, then drop the chain onto the winch. Also, will the barrel take a rope as well as chain, and can the 'exit hole' handle an eye thimble - if you want to shackle an extra length of rope on. Many can't.

Most vertical barrels don't have so many ifs or buts - they're much more flexible in use. Easy to whip the rode off to pull by hand to pass a thimble over, and a good sector grip, so even less important to use calibrated chain.
 
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