Tie danbouy to lifering or not?

[Iain C]

My MOB kit consists of the following:

-Ocean Safety inshore danbouy. Bottom stowed in a piece of drain pipe lashed to the pushpit, flag flaked into a piece of tube dangling from he backstay (carbon fibre I'll have you know!) And with about 2 metres of floating line it's tied to...

-Horseshoe lifering. Stowed on a small ally bracket on the outside of the pushpit. Held on by a piece of bungee which keeps the floating line to the danbouy neat. In turn it's tied to...

-A drogue, attached to the lifebouy grab lines. The drogue is stored in a small plastic pouch cable tied to the pulpit.

-And a floating light, stored upside down in a plastic clip on the ally lifering bracket.

Should all this lot be tied together? My concern is that if I needed to launch it, I need to undo the bungee, drop the lifering over the side, make sure that the light unclips, make sure the drogue comes out its pouch, lift the bottom of the danbouy out, and make sure the top clears the flag storage tube. If any of this goes wrong, I could end up towing it about uselessly.

However, I do see that if everything goes over together, it's all in one place, hopefully near the casualty. However there's also a chance of fouling the prop on the floating line on recovery. I also see the benefit of having the danbouy loose...in many ways my primary aim is to mark the position...hopefully if it's remotely fruity, or dark, the MOB will have a lifejacket with light on so the ring is of secondary importance.

So what is the best plan? Danbouy loose, or with the ring and light? What about drogues? One on each?

(And yes I do have a throwline too)

 

[Severnman]

Your danbuoy and light (at the very least!) attached to your buoy.

 

[Gwylan]

I wondered about this too.
Whether or not being a casualty your condition was likely to be made worse by being speared by a Dan-buoy and or hit by the horseshoe and finished off by a thump on the noggin from the light
Seems an awful lot of bits and bobs held together with string to get over the side and into the vicinity of the casualty.
More selfishly it might be me and I do not want the last words of my loved ones or crew to be something along the lines of 'it's all tangled up, hang on whilst I sort it out'

 

[Fr J Hackett]

The advantage of joining the dan bouy and lifering is that it presents a larger target to the casualty to grab because you need to ensure that they do end up with the casualty and not drifting about seperatley because if they are which one do you aim for. I have about 5M of line between the two. My plan is to launch the ring and light expecting the drouge and light to follow the ring ( they often seem quite keen to jump into the ogin anyway so I don't expect problems) followed by the Dan bouy to be thrown javilin style as close and up wind of the casualty as possible. All theory though one day I will try it but as we sail predominantly two up the fist thing will be a crash stop and get close to whoever is over the side God forbid.

 

[bbg]

I wondered about this too.
Whether or not being a casualty your condition was likely to be made worse by being speared by a Dan-buoy and or hit by the horseshoe and finished off by a thump on the noggin from the light
Seems an awful lot of bits and bobs held together with string to get over the side and into the vicinity of the casualty.
More selfishly it might be me and I do not want the last words of my loved ones or crew to be something along the lines of 'it's all tangled up, hang on whilst I sort it out'

Then best to sort out a way to ensure it all gets over the side quickly and cleanly, if it is necessary to deploy it.

For me, all components form part of a system. Horseshoe to provide flotation. Danbuoy to provide a visual reference. Light the same at night. Drogue to prevent it blowing away from the victim.

I'm not sure it is very useful to say "we found the light" or "we found the danbuoy" while the victim is floating nearby, but unseen.

 

[Ardenfour]

Why don't you chuck the whole lot in the water next time you're out and see how it deploys?

 

[saltwater_gypsy]

I share your concerns about chucking a dan buoy attached to a lifebelt at the man overboard. Maybe its sensible to keep them seperate and throw a lifebelt with light and drouge towards the casualty and then deploy the dan buoy to show the general location.
This is really a question as I am not at all sure what the most effective combination is going to be.

 

[Ariadne]

We have a Dahn with a light, attached to a 'soft' horse shoe on 5m of floating rope.

Never had to deploy it yet, but it should work.

 

[PeterGibbs]

Surely, they perform different functions.

MOB - chuck in the danbuoy to mark the spot. Don't be a smarty, the MOB will be out of sight in a trice and you need that reference point, especially if you have to fight to dowse a spinnaker.

The horse shoe or, much better, a sling on a line will be dragged past the MOB on the return to secure them to the boat. You don't want to be fighting the danbuoy whilst bringing the MOB alongside.

Clearly if they are nicely tied together you won't be able to use them in this simple and intuitive way.

I weary of reading complex systems for recovering MOB's. If this isn't the moment, with stress at hyper max, to keep it simple and take every advantage going, I really despair!
KISS, or kiss goodbye.

PWG

 

[Richard10002]

If you throw them separately, the MOB is most likely to go after the ring/horseshoe, and you are most likely to go after the dan buoy. If they arent in the same location, all you might do is recover your dan buoy

Having said all that... unless you are going pretty slow, by the time you get the gear overboard, it will likely be a long way from the MOB, particularly if you are two-handed.

The best thing to do is appoint a spotter to point continuously at the MOB, and get the boat back to them, (not sure how you do that two handed). If you cant pick them up on the first pass, thro the gear out to give them something to focus on, and hold onto, as well as reassuring them that you are on the case.

Not sure how this works at night. I guess you have to hope the spotter keeps the lifjacket light in sight

 

[prv]

Having said all that... unless you are going pretty slow, by the time you get the gear overboard, it will likely be a long way from the MOB, particularly if you are two-handed.

This is why mine is launched by a single lever, within reach of the helmsman. (Odds of the helmsman himself going over in any normal conditions are pretty minimal - if it's bad enough for him to be chucked out then everyone should be clipped on short.)

At 24 foot I am almost always going pretty slow by most people's standards

Not sure how this works at night. I guess you have to hope the spotter keeps the lifjacket light in sight

Lifejacket or the light on my MOB gear. Big sod-off searchlights also have a part to play; mine is plugged in and hanging by the hatch whenever under way at night.

Pete

 

[ytd]

If you have ever tried to throw a horsehoe with a light and drogue attached you will know how hard it is to get it more than a couple of metres. A horsehoe by itself is much better. If all 4 items were tied together you would be just dropping the lot off the back. You can throw the dan buoy quite a way so our 2 up MOB plan is to hit the plotter button, throw the dan buoy, drop the horsehoe and then drop sails and turn around. Even after 30 years, it's still a plan.

 

[bbg]

Seems there are two schools of thought on this.

My view is it should all be together. If the MOB needs flotation, he is not going to be able to see a horseshoe on its own. He might be able to see a danbuoy, or the occasional flashes of a light. He'd probably be somewhat peeved to swim towards the danbuoy only to find there was nothing to help him stay afloat. And ytd - you're right, you can't throw this stuff, just drop it off the back.

Just to add a bit - IMO the life ring / horsehoe is not part of the recovery equipment, it should go overboard immediately. Everything you can get in the water that floats will potentially help the MOB - either by helping him stay afloat or, if you've lost sight of him, indicating an approximate position.

IMO.

 

[bluedragon]

I'm not sure there is a "right" answer here. I've gone through the same dilemma as we nearly always sail only two-up and it has to be simple. No matter how I tried to connect all the bits together, there was always a trade-off between securing the parts well enough that they didn't fall off whilst sailing, and having them instantly deployable by a less than expert crew. I'm just about to get all new gear for a recently acquired boat. My thoughts are a) Danbuoy with attached light, connected to lifering b) separate MOB sling / heaving line c) NO orange light with the lifering. These things are unreliable, get in the way and have even more string to tie up / tangle-up...and IMO made obsolete by the danbuoy light...BUT I'm still open to better ideas!

Maybe the old maxim that "the PROCESS of planning is more important than the PLAN" applies here. That is, thinking it all through in advance highlights the things that could go wrong.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Surely, they perform different functions.

MOB - chuck in the danbuoy to mark the spot. Don't be a smarty, the MOB will be out of sight in a trice and you need that reference point, especially if you have to fight to dowse a spinnaker.

The horse shoe or, much better, a sling on a line will be dragged past the MOB on the return to secure them to the boat. You don't want to be fighting the danbuoy whilst bringing the MOB alongside.

Clearly if they are nicely tied together you won't be able to use them in this simple and intuitive way.

I weary of reading complex systems for recovering MOB's. If this isn't the moment, with stress at hyper max, to keep it simple and take every advantage going, I really despair!
KISS, or kiss goodbye.

PWG

Absolutely in agreement - Dan buoy first - unwrap flag, extend and chuck. The light should come on automatically (ocean Safety) if the pin is attached to back stay.

By this time you will be too far from the victim for him to reach the life buoy and light. To be quite honest, although we all have these horseshoe thingies on board, I am not sure they are very useful. Perhaps more thought should be given to how to get them out of the water, and have that equipment instead which I don't have.... If the victim was known to be NOT wearing a lifejacket, then I suppose you need to chuck it over as soon after the Dan.

However the best protection is to concentrate on equipment which means that noone will go overboard in the first place - the Harness and lifelines, and well thought out reefing system to minimise a crews time on deck.

Prevention is better than the cure.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I am confused (or should that be bemused?) by some of the reponses here. The thought of throwing a dan-buoy in such a manner that it is likely to spear someone in the conditions in which someone is likely to fall overboard is beyond my imagining. I have never thought of throwing the MOB stuff, rather 'launching it' - and the parts of Danbouy, drogue and light are all part of ONE MOB marker system that acts as a whole.

In severe conditions, experience shows that Danbouys and/or lifebelts ofen get blown away from a swimmer faster than the person can swim. The Drogue is essential to ensure that the light and its lifebelt are reasonably static and can act as a visual reference.

The Danbuoy is as much for the person in the water as the boat searching. The horizon becomes very small for a swimmer, and haveing a danbuoy with its light and flag nearby gives the person something to swim towards. Hopefully, they will find the lifebelt attached. It then marks thair place in the water for the searching boat.

I appreciate that its very easy to get tangled up with all the bits tied together, but it isn't impossible to arrange for the whole lot to be deployed fairly easily. The drogue is usually stuffed into a pouch so that it just pulls free, the light should be clipped on so that it also pulls free when the lifebuouy deploys, and the flag shouldn't be rolled up in its pipe on the backstay, but folded - concertina style so that it unfurls automatically. In theory you should only have to pick the danbouy out of its socket and the lifebuoy out of the holder and the rest should follow if its arranged sensibly.

 

[lw395]

Who's tried throwing a horseshoe life buoy then?
You are lucky to get one ten feet. Then they blow down wind faster than you can sail, let alone swim!

The important thing is to get it over the side ASAP. It must be instantly deployable by the helmsman. As per ORC rules.
It should take the light and danbuoy with it.
It must have an effective drogue.

The MOB then swims toward the horseshoe.
The helm note s his heading, turns around and knows where to look for the MOB.

I also keep a throwing line bag thing permanently at the pushpit.
It's worth practicing with the horseshoe and danbuoy

I do leave my old horseshoes on the pushpit, without any lights or whatever in harbour.
They haven't been nicked yet. This is about the only time you will be better off with a free floating lifebuoy IMHO.

That's my system, tested as far as possible.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Dan Buoy and Lifebelt Attached Together Is Correct

I always understood that the functional intent was for both to be tied together. Remember that this design was pre GPS / DSC / PLB and when not wearing lifejackets (except when unable to swim 50 meters in clothes, fog, dinghy and when abandoning ship) was normal.

Upon noticing a fellow falling overboard immediately unship and jettison the Dan Buoy and Lifebelt. This will mark the approximate location of the unfortunate fellow. It also, rather prudently, presents an opportunity for him to swim to the life belt which he can locate due to the elevation of the Dan Buoy above the waves.

and too continue, on the subject of the functional intent of the second lifebelt.

If, having manoevered the yacht to the vacinity of the Dan Buoy, and in doing so one passes near the fellow and he has not been able to take advantage of prudence, then one can drop or throw, more accurately than the Dan Buoy, the second lifebelt, which by its nature, should allow that hapless fellow a chance to survive, for by now, he must be tiring fast, unless of a strapping disposition.

They were designed to help save a life in the days before push button track back, PLB and lifejacket wearing became de rigueur.

In my opinion, the above functional intent, is still relevant today. It is possible, to loose sight of "an unfortunate fellow", occasionally see the dan buoy, have your track back taking you somewhere else and prudence pulling a fast one and not inflating the fellows life jacket.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

12:30, 12:31, 12:32

A communal brain storm.

 

[saltwater_gypsy]

I commented earlier on this one an have found the responses very interesting and they have focussed my thoughts. I now think that my procedure would be as follows.
(1) Launch dan buoy with lifebelt and drougue attached as soon as possible to mark the spot and, if the casualty can swim towards the dan buoy, then he will at least find some flotation when he gets there.
(2) Launch another lifebuoy (with drougue) if necessary when you get close to the victim
(3) deploy a Lifesling (or similar) to retrieve the casualty.

This is all very well but if you are roaring downwind on a dark night, the prospects of picking up a man overboard are quite low so harness and clip-on is essential.

In moderate conditions, and if you are beating, a procedure worth trying is as follows. Put the helm over so that the boat goes through the wind...and leave the rudder there .... do not touch the sails. (For heave -to would then put the helm to leeward and ease the main but not for this maneuovre.)
The boat goes through the wind ..... gybes.... goes through the wind again..... gybes again....and so on. The gybe is not dramatic because the main is sheeted in throughout.
The outcome is that the yacht sails in a tight circle around the casualty and allows you to get organised for the pick-up.
It may not work with every boat but I have done it with a Sigma 33, a Sigma38 and a Seastream43. Try it with your boat it could be a lifesaver!!!!!