Those for whom the bell tolls

webcraft

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Bilbobaggins in another thread referred to:

[ QUOTE ]
. . . those who set off across our oceans each year - some you never get to hear of again.


[/ QUOTE ]
How many? I don't recall having heard of many yachts that have just disappeared - there was one in the N. Sea a year or so ago, some wreckage was eventually found though.

How many transatlantics fail to arrive at the other side and are never heard of again? Does anyone have any figures?

Of course EPIRBS have reduced disappearances, but is every EPIRB transmission satisfactorily resolved? And don't tell me everyone is sailing with a 406 EPIRB, because I am pretty sure there are still a few low budget adventurers out there.

My understanding has always been that, unlikely as it may seem, crossing oceans in small boats is a surprisingly safe pastime.

- Nick
 

Sea Devil

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As you travel around in marinas, free boat mags etc you will see notices of people looking for loved ones in their yachts who have dissapeard - not errant husbands but brothers, friends et al.

The media only pick up on some stories not by any means all. My French navtext area is currently running 2 'keep a lookout for' requests for info on yachts that have departed somewhere and not arrived...

Do not be fooled by the apparent foolproof 406epirb system - It really is not quite as perfect as everyone makees out - It does work for some of the people some of the time but..............

Of course a 406 EPIRB is the first line of rescue alert but if you really believe that means a Grab Bag in not necessary and that rescue will appear because you have set of a 406 EPIRB then you are extraordinarily naive.

The DSC false alarm - constant alerts causing skippers to effectively switch off or not install the system is a mirror of the 406 EPIRB false alarm problem.

Of course your home S&Rescue authority will be contacted -your home S&R will confirm you are at sea with your telephone contacts and inform the the 'local to the incident' S&R authority that the alert appears to be genuine. The local Search and Rescue authority will then take appropriate action. That 'appropriate action' will sometimes be issuing a navtext alert asking all ships in the area to 'keep a sharp look out'. Sometimes it will divert a frigate to investigate - and even wealthy countries like Australia grumble about the cost of this!

'Appropriate action' means that the poorer countries do what they can afford or are empowered to do, then issue a report that the signal has stopped - (battery flat) no sign of the vessel concerned was found (in fact nobody was close to the position) We did everything possible but were too late (someone found some floating wreckage) etc etc etc.

The concept that all the merchant ships in the area are going to alter course to investigate the EPIRB alert is naive in the extreme. More than 85/95% of all EPIRB alerts are from EPIRB that have been accidentally activated or washed overboard and not recovered!

The freight industry is highly competitive and merchant ships captains will not get brownie points from their employers for altering course to investigate. Nor will they retain their jobs if they go rescuing - Vietnamese boat people or similar. This is not the cosy world of Australia/Europe/USA but a very hard world where life is cheap.

It is very dangerous to go offshore - into distinct waters with the idea anything has changed with the electronics of 406 and other emergency beacons. As before you must be self sufficient and carry equipment to help you survive if the worst does happen.

It is not all as efficient and certain as John the cat appears to believe.
I have been told by Australian coast guard that help is not available for the crew of a yacht in storm force winds on a coral reef 60 miles off shore.
I have been told by a British embassy official in Saudi Arabia that no helicopter help is available for an English yachtsman, dieing in my arms, unless someone will guarantee the charges for the helicopter and my credit card number over the phone is not sufficient!
Even for seach and rescue operations it does come down to how much money is a human life worth - worth spending on an alarm that may be false.....

If you choose to voyage in distant waters there are real and present dangers - do not rely on some electronic international system to get you off the hook - A wonderful thing to do - but it is at your own risk -
 
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I don't doubt your assessment that it is a tough world out there but the question was more about total mortality figures and risk.

Through a collation of SAR, insurance and Foreign Office stats is it possible to measure the risk of offshore sailing?
 

Cornishman

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[ QUOTE ]

one in the N. Sea a year or so ago, some wreckage was eventually found though

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are referring to Team Philips bits of it are now on display in Falmouth Maritime Museum.
 

Sea Devil

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is it possible to measure the risk of offshore sailing?

the risk of being attacked by pirates in the gulf of Aden is 1%

2 years ago I was attacked.....

statistics...

do not think offshore sailing is particularly tough - pretty easy these days but once you leave the comforts of 'home' waters you need to be aware that 'help' is not always at the end of a button...
 

Ships_Cat

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I saw some statistics around 10 years ago which claimed losses of a few percent per annum for the Pacific (cannot remember the exact figure) but that was all losses not just those without trace. In any event, I suspect that figure is high and wrong, certainly now anyway.

While I come across many cruising boats, the foreign ones one usually loses contact with quite quickly though so are hard to comment on, but for New Zealand (my home country) ones I do not recall a NZ one lost without trace for many years (there may have been though) and, of course, many hundreds of them cruise widely, frequently out of the trade wind routes (for example I have two different sets of friends currently in Cape Horn region). However, for quite some time NZ yachts have been required by law to carry 406 EPIRB's if departing from NZ and there have been a number of rescues though. The foreign boats that get here obviously have not been lost without trace (by then anyway /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif).

The NZ Notices to Mariners include notices to watch for small vessels that are recently missing without trace in the NZ Search and Rescue Region which includes from Antarctica to the equator and halfway across to Easter Island (but these are not just yachts) . There are only a few so listed a year and never seen a NZ vessel so listed (I have seen all notices for many years) - these are small vessels that have left from Point A for Point B but have just not turned up in a reasonable amount of time and no alert has been received from the vessel. Of course one does not get to know if they ever do turn up or if they are the only ones missing witout trace, as these are vessels reported by those knowing their expected movements and sometimes that information may not be received until many months have passed by which time a notice is not of any worth. But as I say, there only seem to be a few each year.

Trust that is of some help. I would also be interested in any validated statistics turned up as I have not seen any recent ones.

John
 
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And how many people have their brains scrambled by stepping in front of a bus every year?

Bet you it's a lot more than are lost at sea.

If you're worried about being lost at sea, rather stay in bed and hope the roof doesn't cave in.
 

webcraft

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I wasn't worried John, just curious after reading the comment from the hobbit. My studies have led me to believe that ocean sailing is almost ridiculously safe considering some of the people who do it and the things they do it in, just wondered if I was right.

After all, I hope to do it in a small, old boat in the not too distant future . . .

- Nick
 
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Ah Nick, that's good to hear. I would hate to think you were worried about it. Having done it singlehanded, I now believe it is a bit of a non-event and the most dangerous part is actually putting up with yourself or your crew mates.

John
 
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