This looks like fun

[Sybarite]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=narDHcwh1Mw
http://www.finot.com/bateaux/batproduction/sora_albatros/albatros_presentation.html

Albatros

A ballasted unsinkable dinghy designed by Finot.

 

[Seajet]

Nothing new...

If the thing has a keel as maybe glimpsed in one shot, it will be an utter pain to launch, recover and trail like the 50 or so year old Flying Fifteen.

If not, where's it ballasted ?

Almost all sailing dinghies are ' unsinkable '.

The top roach main is ugly.

If you want real fun in a well designed graceful , beautifully handling very fast dinghy, get an Osprey for a few hundred £ !

 

[Iain C]

Yuk.

From what I can see from the shaky video, the arse is too fat for a dinghy, there's not enough freeboard, I can't see any spreaders, there's nowhere to sit, the kite is too small, it's a sleeve luff main, there's not much freeboard so for a hiker you are going to get soaked, and is that actually a aft mainsheet system on an asymmetric sports boat in 2014?

No thanks.

Andy, those issues on 15s are significantly reduced if you have the right trailer where the keel is well below axle level.

 

[mrming]

1) The OP didn't say it was anything new

2) The asymmetric is easier to handle than a flying fifteen with a conventional kite

3) What would you say if it was British?

 

[Iain C]

1. Neither did I

2. Horses for courses...yes it's easier to gybe a 49er than a 15 but try getting a 49er downwind on a really light day

3. I'd have said that from what I can see from the shaky video, the arse is too fat for a dinghy, there's not enough freeboard, I can't see any spreaders, there's nowhere to sit, the kite is too small, it's a sleeve luff main, there's not much freeboard so for a hiker you are going to get soaked, and is that actually a aft mainsheet system on an asymmetric sports boat in 2014?

 

[Seajet]

Also the rope mainsheet horse looks badly sorted, though that may be a prototype; note the mainsheet is choc-a-block when beating.

No matter who is making it, dinghy sailing is at best dormant at the moment if not in a serious decline, there are lots of good dinghies going for peanuts now so I don't fancy the chances of a new, necessarily expensive and classless one.

 

[Sybarite]

Nothing new...

It is new; it's been developed over the last 3 years or so by Finot who has a certain pedigree in boat design.

If the thing has a keel as maybe glimpsed in one shot, it will be an utter pain to launch, recover and trail like the 50 or so year old Flying Fifteen.

It's a centerboarder with a weighted plate.

Almost all sailing dinghies are ' unsinkable '.

Perhaps; I was just making the point that with the ballast it was still unsinkable.

The top roach main is ugly.

Subjective. It increases the sail area for a given height of mast. I think you will need to get used to it because more and more boats have them.

If you want real fun in a well designed graceful , beautifully handling very fast dinghy, get an Osprey for a few hundred £

!

Perhaps but that is not the question.

 

[Sybarite]

Yuk.

From what I can see from the shaky video, the arse is too fat for a dinghy, there's not enough freeboard, I can't see any spreaders, there's nowhere to sit, the kite is too small, it's a sleeve luff main, there's not much freeboard so for a hiker you are going to get soaked, and is that actually a aft mainsheet system on an asymmetric sports boat in 2014?

No thanks.

Andy, those issues on 15s are significantly reduced if you have the right trailer where the keel is well below axle level.

Wide stern provides stability which, linked with the ballast, limits the need to hike. The design is such that it sails fastest when it is slightly heeled, thus lowering the wetted surface area.

The sleeve luff main has I believe now been changed judging from photos I have seen.

 

[Sybarite]

1. Neither did I

2. Horses for courses...yes it's easier to gybe a 49er than a 15 but try getting a 49er downwind on a really light day

3. I'd have said that from what I can see from the shaky video, the arse is too fat for a dinghy, there's not enough freeboard, I can't see any spreaders, there's nowhere to sit, the kite is too small, it's a sleeve luff main, there's not much freeboard so for a hiker you are going to get soaked, and is that actually a aft mainsheet system on an asymmetric sports boat in 2014?

Maybe you should have a word with Finot and let him know what he is doing wrong. After all he has only been responsible for the design of about 40000 boats including some of the most competitive ones.

40 000 bateaux produits dans le monde

1967 Rebelle 1968 Geva, Ecume de mer 1970 MorbicIII, Galiote, Brin de Folie/Folie douce(1), Rêve de mer, Brise de mer 31 1971 Nautile, Reve d'Antilles, Passatore, Comet 910 plus, Brise de mer 38, Comet 910(3) 1972 Revolution, Fleur de mer, Comet 770, Comet 801, Grand Soleil 34, Aloa 29, 1973 Rêve des Tropiques, Yamaha 29, Brise de mer 40, Fastnet 34, Otarie, Passatore 1974 Comet 701, Comet 701deriv.L 1975 Rêve des Seychelles, Brise de mer 34, Brise de mer 37 1976 Papillon , Otarie/ mini ton, Mallard 10,40/septentrion 1977 Comet 700, Comet 850, Comet 860, Heliotrope, Brise de mer 28, First 22, Comet 11 1978 Comet 800, Grand Soleil 41, Navisonde, First 18, Coloquinte, Soleil Levant 1979 La Concorde, Eglantine, Comet 1000, First 25, Comet 111, Brise de mer 44 1980 Eglantine, Lune de Mai, Wizz, Comet 14, First 28 1981 Vent de Fête, mesureX,Y,2(2) 1982 , Libeccio, wegu 701, First 24, First Class 10(1), Comet 13, First Class 8, 1983 Belle, Fair Lady (2) Phoenix, First Class 7(1), First 29, Comet 1050/Rimar10,5 1984 La Concorde, Comet 15 , Comet 460, First 26, Comet 28 Race 1985 Esprit du vent, Brise de mer 39, Comet 383, First Class 12, Comet 11+, Les Copains D'abord 1986 First 285, Formule 40, Mandarine, First 235 dériveur, Lévrier de mer 16, MiniTransat 1, 2 et 3 1987 Lévrier de mer 12, Comet 375(mirabelle) 1988 First Class Europe 1989 Generali Concorde, Objectif 100, Levrier de mer 18 1990 Groupe Sceta, Lévrier de Mer 20, Minimax, Lévrier 25, Grand Soleil 38, First 265, First 310, Figaro Bénéteau (3) 1991 Costa Esmeralda, Cybelle, First 210/211, Mirabelle, Oceanis 300, Oceanis 400 1992 Bagages Superior, First 260 Spririt, Lévrier de Mer 22, Mini Objectif 100 1993 Comet 301, Geodis, Kermor , Rimar 10,5, Rimar 31 1995 Oceanis Clipper 281, Oceanis Clipper 321, First 300 Spirit 1996 Aquitaine Innovations, Cigale 16, Fox 50, PRB, Groupe LG 1997 CCP Cray Valley 1997 Lévrier 12, Cigale 14, Cigale 18, Fila, Loup de mer 1998 Barberis 51, First 31,7, Gartmore, Giro 34, Group 4, Magellan, Oceanis 40CC, Oceanis Clipper 311, Oceanis Clipper 411, Open 7,50, Queentime, Sodebo, Somewhere 1999 Rimar 10,75, South 35, Queentime 44, Océanis Clipper 473, UBP, PRB 2000 Oceanis 331, Oceanis 473, 2001 Open 40, Oceanis 42CC, Open 5,70 , 2002 ADP52, Pogo2, First 27.7, Oceanis Clipper 423, Open 6,50, First Class 7.5, 2003 Oceanis Clipper 323, Pogo 40, 2004 Albatros 50, Oceanis 523 2005 MiniTransat 2006, Open 5.00, HFC 44, Maison flottante 2006 60' Generali, 60' Hugo Boss, 60' Brit Air, 2007 60' Ourson rapide, Pogo 10.50, Océanis 31, Océanis 37, Twiner 2.80, Veolia Oceans, 2008 DCNS, 2009 Océanis 34 , 2010 Phileas 360 , 2014 L'Albatros

 

[mrming]

Maybe you should have a word with Finot and let him know what he is doing wrong. After all he has only been responsible for the design of about 40000 boats including some of the most competitive ones.

I have a Finot boat. Sails great.

Edit - perhaps one of the French speakers can tell us what the point of this boat is supposed to be? To me it looks like a fun family dayboat which is not too demanding to sail but still has a bit of a racy look about it.

 

[Sybarite]

I have a Finot boat. Sails great.

Edit - perhaps one of the French speakers can tell us what the point of this boat is supposed to be? To me it looks like a fun family dayboat which is not too demanding to sail but still has a bit of a racy look about it.

In their publicity they say that it is a fun boat that can sailed by anybody from 8 to 88.

 

[mrming]

In their publicity they say that it is a fun boat that can sailed by anybody from 8 to 88.

So not a sportsboat then, hence the small kite and lots of form stability.

 

[Iain C]

Maybe you should have a word with Finot and let him know what he is doing wrong. After all he has only been responsible for the design of about 40000 boats including some of the most competitive ones.

40 000 bateaux produits dans le monde

1967 Rebelle 1968 Geva, Ecume de mer 1970 MorbicIII, Galiote, Brin de Folie/Folie douce(1), Rêve de mer, Brise de mer 31 1971 Nautile, Reve d'Antilles, Passatore, Comet 910 plus, Brise de mer 38, Comet 910(3) 1972 Revolution, Fleur de mer, Comet 770, Comet 801, Grand Soleil 34, Aloa 29, 1973 Rêve des Tropiques, Yamaha 29, Brise de mer 40, Fastnet 34, Otarie, Passatore 1974 Comet 701, Comet 701deriv.L 1975 Rêve des Seychelles, Brise de mer 34, Brise de mer 37 1976 Papillon , Otarie/ mini ton, Mallard 10,40/septentrion 1977 Comet 700, Comet 850, Comet 860, Heliotrope, Brise de mer 28, First 22, Comet 11 1978 Comet 800, Grand Soleil 41, Navisonde, First 18, Coloquinte, Soleil Levant 1979 La Concorde, Eglantine, Comet 1000, First 25, Comet 111, Brise de mer 44 1980 Eglantine, Lune de Mai, Wizz, Comet 14, First 28 1981 Vent de Fête, mesureX,Y,2(2) 1982 , Libeccio, wegu 701, First 24, First Class 10(1), Comet 13, First Class 8, 1983 Belle, Fair Lady (2) Phoenix, First Class 7(1), First 29, Comet 1050/Rimar10,5 1984 La Concorde, Comet 15 , Comet 460, First 26, Comet 28 Race 1985 Esprit du vent, Brise de mer 39, Comet 383, First Class 12, Comet 11+, Les Copains D'abord 1986 First 285, Formule 40, Mandarine, First 235 dériveur, Lévrier de mer 16, MiniTransat 1, 2 et 3 1987 Lévrier de mer 12, Comet 375(mirabelle) 1988 First Class Europe 1989 Generali Concorde, Objectif 100, Levrier de mer 18 1990 Groupe Sceta, Lévrier de Mer 20, Minimax, Lévrier 25, Grand Soleil 38, First 265, First 310, Figaro Bénéteau (3) 1991 Costa Esmeralda, Cybelle, First 210/211, Mirabelle, Oceanis 300, Oceanis 400 1992 Bagages Superior, First 260 Spririt, Lévrier de Mer 22, Mini Objectif 100 1993 Comet 301, Geodis, Kermor , Rimar 10,5, Rimar 31 1995 Oceanis Clipper 281, Oceanis Clipper 321, First 300 Spirit 1996 Aquitaine Innovations, Cigale 16, Fox 50, PRB, Groupe LG 1997 CCP Cray Valley 1997 Lévrier 12, Cigale 14, Cigale 18, Fila, Loup de mer 1998 Barberis 51, First 31,7, Gartmore, Giro 34, Group 4, Magellan, Oceanis 40CC, Oceanis Clipper 311, Oceanis Clipper 411, Open 7,50, Queentime, Sodebo, Somewhere 1999 Rimar 10,75, South 35, Queentime 44, Océanis Clipper 473, UBP, PRB 2000 Oceanis 331, Oceanis 473, 2001 Open 40, Oceanis 42CC, Open 5,70 , 2002 ADP52, Pogo2, First 27.7, Oceanis Clipper 423, Open 6,50, First Class 7.5, 2003 Oceanis Clipper 323, Pogo 40, 2004 Albatros 50, Oceanis 523 2005 MiniTransat 2006, Open 5.00, HFC 44, Maison flottante 2006 60' Generali, 60' Hugo Boss, 60' Brit Air, 2007 60' Ourson rapide, Pogo 10.50, Océanis 31, Océanis 37, Twiner 2.80, Veolia Oceans, 2008 DCNS, 2009 Océanis 34 , 2010 Phileas 360 , 2014 L'Albatros

I'm not doubting Finot's credentials. I'm just saying as an experienced dinghy sailor who has sailed everything from Mirrors to 18' skiffs, I don't like what I see for the reasons above. If it's a prototype and lots will change, so be it.

You said it looks like "fun". To me, it doesn't. I'd be cursing the small kite and mainsheet arrangement, and thinking that if I had to wear a wetsuit to stay warm then I might as well just sail a 49er and go twice as fast. IMHO it's not a proper skiff, and I doubt it would deliver the speed of something like a Seascape 18, or the fleet racing experience of an SB20.

In my mind it's a hybrid bike. Simple, accessible to all, but compromised in performance. I'm not saying it hasn't hit the design brief 100% and will appeal to some people, but it has no appeal to me. Same as some people have no desire to sail a boat you need to swim out capsized to deep water, and get thrown around the front of the forestay at 23kts.

 

[TSB240]

Maybe you should have a word with Finot and let him know what he is doing wrong. After all he has only been responsible for the design of about 40000 boats including some of the most competitive ones.

40 000 bateaux produits dans le monde

1967 Rebelle 1968 Geva, Ecume de mer 1970 MorbicIII, Galiote, Brin de Folie/Folie douce(1), Rêve de mer, Brise de mer 31 1971 Nautile, Reve d'Antilles, Passatore, Comet 910 plus, Brise de mer 38, Comet 910(3) 1972 Revolution, Fleur de mer, Comet 770, Comet 801, Grand Soleil 34, Aloa 29, 1973 Rêve des Tropiques, Yamaha 29, Brise de mer 40, Fastnet 34, Otarie, Passatore 1974 Comet 701, Comet 701deriv.L 1975 Rêve des Seychelles, Brise de mer 34, Brise de mer 37 1976 Papillon , Otarie/ mini ton, Mallard 10,40/septentrion 1977 Comet 700, Comet 850, Comet 860, Heliotrope, Brise de mer 28, First 22, Comet 11 1978 Comet 800, Grand Soleil 41, Navisonde, First 18, Coloquinte, Soleil Levant 1979 La Concorde, Eglantine, Comet 1000, First 25, Comet 111, Brise de mer 44 1980 Eglantine, Lune de Mai, Wizz, Comet 14, First 28 1981 Vent de Fête, mesureX,Y,2(2) 1982 , Libeccio, wegu 701, First 24, First Class 10(1), Comet 13, First Class 8, 1983 Belle, Fair Lady (2) Phoenix, First Class 7(1), First 29, Comet 1050/Rimar10,5 1984 La Concorde, Comet 15 , Comet 460, First 26, Comet 28 Race 1985 Esprit du vent, Brise de mer 39, Comet 383, First Class 12, Comet 11+, Les Copains D'abord 1986 First 285, Formule 40, Mandarine, First 235 dériveur, Lévrier de mer 16, MiniTransat 1, 2 et 3 1987 Lévrier de mer 12, Comet 375(mirabelle) 1988 First Class Europe 1989 Generali Concorde, Objectif 100, Levrier de mer 18 1990 Groupe Sceta, Lévrier de Mer 20, Minimax, Lévrier 25, Grand Soleil 38, First 265, First 310, Figaro Bénéteau (3) 1991 Costa Esmeralda, Cybelle, First 210/211, Mirabelle, Oceanis 300, Oceanis 400 1992 Bagages Superior, First 260 Spririt, Lévrier de Mer 22, Mini Objectif 100 1993 Comet 301, Geodis, Kermor , Rimar 10,5, Rimar 31 1995 Oceanis Clipper 281, Oceanis Clipper 321, First 300 Spirit 1996 Aquitaine Innovations, Cigale 16, Fox 50, PRB, Groupe LG 1997 CCP Cray Valley 1997 Lévrier 12, Cigale 14, Cigale 18, Fila, Loup de mer 1998 Barberis 51, First 31,7, Gartmore, Giro 34, Group 4, Magellan, Oceanis 40CC, Oceanis Clipper 311, Oceanis Clipper 411, Open 7,50, Queentime, Sodebo, Somewhere 1999 Rimar 10,75, South 35, Queentime 44, Océanis Clipper 473, UBP, PRB 2000 Oceanis 331, Oceanis 473, 2001 Open 40, Oceanis 42CC, Open 5,70 , 2002 ADP52, Pogo2, First 27.7, Oceanis Clipper 423, Open 6,50, First Class 7.5, 2003 Oceanis Clipper 323, Pogo 40, 2004 Albatros 50, Oceanis 523 2005 MiniTransat 2006, Open 5.00, HFC 44, Maison flottante 2006 60' Generali, 60' Hugo Boss, 60' Brit Air, 2007 60' Ourson rapide, Pogo 10.50, Océanis 31, Océanis 37, Twiner 2.80, Veolia Oceans, 2008 DCNS, 2009 Océanis 34 , 2010 Phileas 360 , 2014 L'Albatros

Not designed many dinghies then!

Looks like a a very poor mans POGO! Being poor I cant afford one of them either!

Should have twin rudders if its designed to be sailed at a heel!

 

[Sybarite]

Not designed many dinghies then!

Looks like a a very poor mans POGO! Being poor I cant afford one of them either!

Should have twin rudders if its designed to be sailed at a heel!

He designed the Wizz which, in its time (1980), was revolutionary. The Albatros is an extension of the same concept.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAaVdIA8zmg

 

[Seajet]

Perhaps but that is not the question.

Weighted - lead in those days - centreplates are nothing new, the Bosun dinghies I learned on as a boy had them in the 1970's. and undoubtedly earlier boats had them.

The boat featured has nothing new or original going for it beyond existing dinghies, whose designers have been at it for a century inc modern materials since the 1980's or earlier.

I'll say it again, an Osprey would be at least as fast, much nicer to handle, an established class and a fraction of the price !

 

[mrming]

the Bosun dinghies I learned on as a boy had them in the 1970's

This is the key point for me. Ospreys are very nice but they are a trapeze dinghy and not ideal for getting new people into sailing. Something like this Albatross which has the illusion of raciness but actually is very stable and doesn't have a huge kite might be just the thing for getting new people excited about sailing dinghies.

It's a bit like the current generation of Clipper boats. They look the part to a beginner but actually they are heavy, forgiving sail training vessels. People can choose to move up to Ospreys or indeed 49ers once they know what they are doing.