Thinking about buying a 1976 Princess 32 with a single Volvo Penta KAD43

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Kenneth_LI4537

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Hi,

I am currently looking for a "new" boat. One alternative popped up on the web a couple of days ago:
http://www.finn.no/finn/boat/used/object?finnkode=46914630&searchclickthrough=true (I live in Norway and the web page is in Norwegian)

The boat seems mostly original, but has been re-engined with a 213hp KAD43 with 2200 engine hours on it and does 27 knots flat out (according to the add). The water pump and drive belts has been replaced on the engine.
Apart from that, the add is pretty light on information..

I have a few questions before I inspect the boat:
How does this hull perform in bad weather (2-4 meter waves)?
Does the top speed seem realistic with a single 216hp engine? (For a KAD43 I think this is at the propeller shaft, not right out of the engine)
2200 hours on the engine and the stern drive... I know it's no problem for the engine, but is that stern drive approaching end of life, or at least a major (and expensive) overhaul?

Best regards,
Kenneth from Norway
 
Princess 32 is a very shallow vee and is quite capable of offshore use in mild conditions but it will slam a lot in big waves and is probably not the best boat for rough stuff. However it is easily driven with its flat bottom aft and narrow beam so 27kts is not unrealistic, KAD43 is 230hp and P32 used to do 25+knts with 2x130hp diesels. Guess its probably a DPE drive so will need careful checking so budget £1500-2000 for a complete recon.
 
Thanks for the information Chris_d.
I've seen pictures of a P32's underwater hull on land, so you're comments about how it handles offshore use seems to confirm my guesstimates.
I like these boats a lot. Their layout, both outside and inside seems to get a lot out of the available room, and I like the large hardtop. They look great as well, not a critical factor, but it sure ain't a disadvantage. My only big worry is that stern drive. 2200 hours on a single drive pushing about 5 tons of boat sounds like a huge bill somewhere in the not to distant future.
£1500-2000 for a complete recon probably translates into £3500-4500 with the prices in Norway, or about 1/3 of what the seller is asking for the boat, and that might be a bit excessive. Maybe trying to find a second hand replacement drive with a lot fever hours on it, or a refurbished drive might be better options.
 
Our first boat was a P32 and as already said the have very flat sections aft with a shallow V. Not all that bad in a sea - another forumite had one and got caught in very bad conditions and he reported that the boat coped well. We had twin 106hp engines and only managed around ten knots flat out but I would tend to agree that they may slam a bit at speed in a head sea. Good space for the size of boat and I think they have lovely lines.

Never heard of one that has been re-engined but the KAD 43 should be up to the job. If the drive has been well maintained it may be okay but they are always a gamble! :)
 
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Heisan Kenneth og velkommen hit!

I'll switch to English for the audience here...

If your location is Svalbard (Spitsbergen for the English speakers in here), I'd be a bit cautious about the combination of boat/engine/drive you are looking at...

Ask yourself what you want to use the boat for and the season (how much ice etc.), the boat would be used in...

You may be better off with a different combination of boat/engine/drive and go for shaft drive, with a skeg and install dual water intakes to reduce risk of ice clogging up the small water intake of the stern drive.

So if you share a bit of where/what you will be using the boat for, I am sure that all in here would be keen to participate in a discussion with what must be the forum contributor in the most northern location!!

Welcome to the forum by the way!

Med vennlig hilsen

Alf
 
Greg2 said:
Our first boat was a P32 and as already said the have very flat sections aft with a shallow V. Not all that bad in a sea - another forumite had one and got caught in very bad conditions and he reported that the boat coped well. We had twin 106hp engines and only managed around ten knots flat out but I would tend to agree that they may slam a bit at speed in a head sea. Good space for the size of boat and I think they have lovely lines.

Never heard of one that has been re-engined but the KAD 43 should be up to the job. If the drive has been well maintained it may be okay but they are always a gamble! :)
Click to expand...

Old stern drives are never going to be a safe bet, that's for sure. But with some luck I think this can turn out to be a good boat. :)
However, after studying the pictures more closely, the engine bay doesn't exactly look encouraging. There does seem to be quite an oil slick beneath the engine..
But with more than 2000 boats built, and more than a few of them making it over here, I might just find an even better looking example with some patience. :)
 
Divemaster1 said:
Heisan Kenneth og velkommen hit!

I'll switch to English for the audience here...

If your location is Svalbard (Spitsbergen for the English speakers in here), I'd be a bit cautious about the combination of boat/engine/drive you are looking at...

Ask yourself what you want to use the boat for and the season (how much ice etc.), the boat would be used in...

You may be better off with a different combination of boat/engine/drive and go for shaft drive, with a skeg and install dual water intakes to reduce risk of ice clogging up the small water intake of the stern drive.

So if you share a bit of where/what you will be using the boat for, I am sure that all in here would be keen to participate in a discussion with what must be the forum contributor in the most northern location!!

Welcome to the forum by the way!

Med vennlig hilsen

Alf
Click to expand...

Tusen takk for velkomsten! :)

Yes, I currently live in Svalbard, but I'll be moving to Oslo next month. I intend to use the boat primarily as a day/weekend cruiser in the Oslo fjord, perhaps with some longer holiday cruises up the west coast or along the Swedish coast. Ice will, hopefully, be less of an issue there (at least in the summer). The inner part of the Oslo fjord can freeze in the winter, but then she'll either be taken ashore, or maybe I'll move her further out the fjord to extend the season.

I've actually had a boat for the last two seasons up here at Svalbard (a Skibsplast 675 HT with a Suzuki 250 hp outboard), and ice has been almost a non-issue in the summer. With the oceans warming up, there has been almost no ice on most of the fjords up here at all. The lack of ice has actually been a problem during the snowmobile season the last few winters as places and cabins that usually have been popular destinations have been inaccessible due as they are virtually impossible to get to without crossing a fjord or two.
 
ok, so not Spitsbergen then...

I'd also consider the following:

Fairline Mirage

Apollo 32 (I can vouch for seakeeping here as I had one) - http://www.finn.no/finn/boat/used/object?finnkode=43564733&searchclickthrough=true

Fairline 32 Sedan

Early Scand Boats ... such as Baltic

Halco 29 Offshore

Nord West (different than this one ... may have been called 30 ..or 900) - http://www.finn.no/finn/boat/used/object?finnkode=46932138&searchclickthrough=true

Mørejet 30

All should be similarly priced/age ... the Nord West will be more expensive...

You also need to look at things like stern anchor, heating etc., as they all cost a fair bit to fit...
 
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Thanks for the input Divemaster1.
I'm always open for options and don't have my mind totally set on a specific boat yet.

I actually looked at the add for that Nord West earlier today. It's a sturdy boat, and I like the closed cockpit and the large, open aft deck. However, I think it seems a bit cramped inside, and that the internal layout seems less than optimal. Then again, it's a lot of boat for a 24 footer, and buying a boat on my budget will always be a big game of compromise. That nice aft deck does to an extent make up for the sub-optimal indoor space. And, yes, that engine seems a bit underpowered for the boat.

I hadn't noticed the Apollo yet. It seems like a really nice boat. Judging from the pictures, I probably prefer it to the Nord West. The front salon seems very nice and roomy, and with an aft cabin, I don't have to convert it from salon to bed and back again every day. Not to mention that it makes it a lot easier to have guests with me for a weekend. Of course, there's a compromise (as with pretty much any boat at less then a 100 feet I guess :rolleyes: ) The aft cabin does take up a lot of space, leaving a relatively small cockpit.
One of the things I really like about the Princess is the layout with a cabin in the bow, a nice salon indoor and then a large cockpit at the rear. :)
How would you describe the cockpit of the Apollo 32? how many people can be comfortably seated there? Is it room enough for four adults to eat dinner there, or is it preferable to eat the dinners in the salons?

Price/equipment will of course have to be considered carefully. I'm hoping to keep within 150.000 kroner with at least some of the equipment in place. That will leave me with some room for immediate upgrades (heating and a stern anchor winch are probably the highest priorities). Further upgrades I can take further down the road. I've concluded that going for a moderately equipped boat and then upgrading as I go will give me a better chance of finding a boat that is the most suitable for me and my use. :)

Once again thanks for all the input from everyone. :encouragement:
 
The Apollo is a very well built boat, and probably better suited to a family of four than the Princess. The aft cabin also gives a bit of privacy. Cockpit table (foldable) seats four (Starboard seat swivels around), but the bigger table in the salon will comfortably seat six, so that will be your preference, unless you want to eat outside. Better and "warmer" use of wood inside, and much better to move around the boat with wide side decks (important when you have children and guests onboard). The galley is excellent for the size of boat, as is the head. If you do have kids, you will find a dinghy a must for exploring, so could do the job for you with some room for growth. We took ours in a range from Lofoten to the little island south of Esbjerg and all between, so no disputing her capabilities...
 
We spent a week on one of these (a hire boat) on the Caledonian Canal one Easter years ago when it snowed most days.
With your Climate in mind, the lasting memory was of a very practical boat but with terrible condensation during the night in particular. We would wake up like we had slept outside in the rain!
Seemed to be to do with the plastic (vynyl) lining more than anything so could be changed if not already.
 
Ok probly not much use as still not managed to be in the water yet but...

My dad had a projet 31 (similar to the princess32) it was a nice boat, good layout etc... i thought possibly a little under powered as it had 2x x60hp perkins engines. He intended to use it on a coastal area in scotland. We had that put in the water last april. It was our first attempt at 'proper' boating.

Althought it was a nice boat, nice layout i felt with little experience it seemed to me to be more of a river boat/inland water craft. We had not had it off the pontoon at this point.

My dad hired a professonal trainer to assist him in taking it to our mooring which was a swinging line 10 miles further north in another marina. He said it was a bit of a shock as to how lumpy it seemed out in the sea and thought he was going to break the boat with how it was slamming over waves. As it turned out, to cut a long story, the surveyor appeared to miss a few old non return ales which had been hidden behind interior panels - the boat sank within 24 hours of this journey. Luckily my dad decided not to spend the night on his new pride and joy as it was discussed!

Following this we set out to look for a replacement. Again he stuck to loking at project 31's and the princess 32. I personally went to visit 1 he had found, also re engined with twin KAD32's and VP290DP drives. Upon asking about the history of the vessel, i was told it was used for coastal runs from an estury and was a great sea boat. There definately wasn't much room to move in the engine bay or een get a foot in there to be honest. But it was a nice space to be in the living area. I was ad vised it usually sat above 30knots at cruise with those engines so was a bit of a flying machine.

However, i viewed a few other styles of boat which my dad dismissed, the Fairline Phantom32 and Sedan32. Both of which i thought seemed 'sturdier' and i just got a safe feeling when standing on the aft deck. They seemed to have more space than the princess due to layouts, prices were higher but i got the impression with boats space = £££

After putting a case forward about both boats - we now own a Fairline Sedan32. It hasn't been in the water yet although im hoping that changes this march. Even though my dad dismissed this style of boat, he agrees now its looks and feels like a step up. the length maybe the same but it seems larger, the interior is more enclosed with a sliding door, and the addition of a flybridge for summer too.

I did a fair bit of reading beforehand and they also seemed to be a solid/reliable boat and good at coastal areas due to the design.

The phantoms i looked at were also based on the same hull i believe with a slightly different layout.

No idea if that helps but good luck on your search.
 
First of all, a huge thanks to everyone for your great input!

In my experience, even very flat bottomed boats can go relatively comfortable trough some chop if yo pull the speed down a bit and trim the nose way down, so this doesn't worry me too much. Considering the age of the boats, I think I will avoid boats with the original engine(s) and look for a re-engined boat. Also, IF I decide to go for the Princess, I think I will look for a twin-engine install as about 5 tons of boat on a single old stern drive kinda seems like a huge repair bill just waiting to happen.

It is so true, on a boat, space is expensive. Very expensive. And that's actually one of the reasons I'm considering the Princess 32: since it's somewhat "small" for a 32, and the layout might be less ideal for a family than other 32's (There's just two of us, so it's relatively open layout is almost perfect for us), prices are more within my budget than other 32's I've seen for sale. (At least this early in the year. Hopefully, there will be more to choose from in a month or two.)
 
Divemaster1 said:
The Apollo is a very well built boat, and probably better suited to a family of four than the Princess. The aft cabin also gives a bit of privacy. Cockpit table (foldable) seats four (Starboard seat swivels around), but the bigger table in the salon will comfortably seat six, so that will be your preference, unless you want to eat outside. Better and "warmer" use of wood inside, and much better to move around the boat with wide side decks (important when you have children and guests onboard). The galley is excellent for the size of boat, as is the head. If you do have kids, you will find a dinghy a must for exploring, so could do the job for you with some room for growth. We took ours in a range from Lofoten to the little island south of Esbjerg and all between, so no disputing her capabilities...
Click to expand...

There's just two of us (tough, who knows when a mini-me might get added to the crew ;) ) so the Princess 32, with the cabin in the bow and the salon that can be converted to a double bed, will probably work just great for us. However, I do see the appeal of the aft cabin. It frees up space in the bow salon and gives a lot more privacy when you do have more than two persons on board.
However, (and this is just judging from pictures, I might have gotten a wrong impression) the outdoor cockpit does seem a bit cramped on many 27-32's with an aft cabin.
The outdoor space is important to us as just sitting inside in the few days of nice weather we get around here just seems plain wrong. It's good to hear that it's possible for four to eat dinner outside on the Apollo 32 as this is a bare minimum requirement for us.
How many people do the cockpit seat on the Apollo? is it just room for 4 persons at all (even when not eating dinner), or is it room for a few more to enjoy a drink or two in the evening?
Also, how much speed can I expect to get out of a twin engined Apollo 32 with 310hp total, and what milage will it do at high cruise speed and at displacement speed?

Thank you for you input and for opening my eyes for another alternative! :encouragement:
 
OK ... from the pictures, it looks like the Apollo appears to have a small double (one and a half) + a single in the aft cabin, which means you won't have to worry about making the beds etc., but leave the fwd as living space.

There will probably be 5 fixed seats in the cockpit, but throw the canopy off, or roll up side(s) then the top of the aft can be used as seats al around... We frequently had 10 people onboard for evening time all congregating in and around the cockpit. The wide side and aft deck made for easy movement around. The Princess 32 in comparison have a long open cockpit with a bench seat aft for 4 people and you then need loose chairs lined up. With the aft cabin of the Apollo, you will not have people who use your toilet, or sitting fwd playing cards etc., seeing your bed area etc.... and when you have guests staying overnight there will still be an element of privacy as you are locate at opposite ends of the boat.

The engines in the Apollo will probably be rock crushing Fords and with only 2000 hrs on the clock, the should last another lifetime... Speed wise we got 21 knots out with 2 x 120 hp Fords (19 knots laden for holidays), with cruise at about 16. The hull is semi-displacement, so won't "get up & go" like the Princess, but would suspect she'll cruise at 18 + .... but she'll do that in all weather and never slam. Motorboat & Yachting tested an Apollo 32 against several bigger boats in the late 70's and everyone seems to have agreed that she outperformed most of the bigger boats in the test (a Laguna 11.5 Metre was the biggest one in the test). I seem to recall that the hull's sweet spot (with our engines) was about 15 knots for a mixed speed / economy.

The Apollo is a very different hull to the Princess and is more comparable with a Nelson hull, than anything planning.

dsc001.jpg
 
Again, thank you for your valuable feedback Divemaster1. It is greatly appreciated.

If I were to get a Princess 32, I'd definitely modify the cockpit seating arrangements. Probably by adding fold-down benches on the side so I could have a U-sofa at the back when needed.

But I'm starting to warm up to the Apollo 32. The (relatively small) disadvantage of the smaller cockpit are made up by the advantage of the aft cabin, seemingly larger toilet, wider side decks and that great kitchen area (the last three are very important in the eyes of my better half) more than makes up for it in my opinion. After all, most of the time, it'll probably be just the two of us on board.

In addition, the straight shafts are more reliable than a similarly aged stern drive. Service costs on the two engines in the Apollo will probably be about the same as that on the Princess and it's stern drive if I were to get someone to do it for me. (And with a stern drive, I'd at least have to pay up for someone to service the stern drive), but a straight shaft configuration is something I can service myself. So the Apollo wins on service cost too.
The KAD43 is probably newer then the two Ford rock crushers in the Apollo, but they have about the same amount of hours on them, and the Ford's are simpler and probably far more reliable after 2000 hours than the Volvo Penta.

And just to top it all off, I do prefer a semi-displacement hull to a planing hull. (A very common side effect from boating on the fjords of northern Norway and Svalbard)
A semi-displacement hull is more directionally stable when cruising economically at displacement speeds, and they usually handle choppy seas and bad conditions more comfortably than a planing hull. The disadvantages of lower speed, and (usually) worse fuel economy at high speed becomes utterly irrelevant to me when compared to the advantages of the hull.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm leaning more and more towards the Apollo 32 even tough it's somewhat above my budget. (but then again, what are budgets for if not breaking?)
The only problem now is that the Apollo is in the very south of Norway and I'm still up at Svalbard and I don't have a chance to leave until I move down to Oslo the 28th of March.
Hopefully the Apollo won't be sold until then, or another boat comes out for sale by then.

Thanks again to everybody for your valuable input and help! It is much appreciated! :D
 
That Grand Banks us a true beauty and a boat I would absolutely love to own :)
Unfortunately it's about three times my budget, not including import tax abd transportation to Norway :(
Maybe next time.... :(
 
I have a Princess 32 but with twin AQD32A engines at 106 hp each. This gives a top speed of about 16 knots. Given the extra power and reduced weight of a single engine 27 knots could probably be achieved.

As far as I know, none of the single engine options offers by Princess for these boats would plane so this is an unusual combination. Personally I prefer the security offered by twin engines if going to sea although a single engine would reduce maintenance costs quite a bit.

I do not find that our boat slams as much as may others I have tried. The 32 has a narrow hull compared with most boats of her length and slices into the waves pretty well in my opinion. The only time that I have known ours to slam badly was when the waves were just the wrong length for the hull but it was easily overcome by taking them at a slight angle.

From the pictures in the advertisement this looks to be in good and mostly original condition and well cared for. However, the transom and bathing platform look very odd. The normal hull has an overhang on the transom just below the deck and the bathing platforms are usually bolted on. This one appears to have a moulded on platform with some sort of extension to the hull although the transom looks normal from the inside. I would not like to take that boat out to sea unless the batteries were fixed down more securely. They look as though they could be tipped onto the engine quite easily with the risk of spilt acid and even a short circuit. Assuming that the boat originally had a smaller, four cylinder engine the batteries were probably originally on a shelf in front of the engine and have been moved to make room for the new engine.
 
The KAD43 in this boat is almost certainly a retrofit. Single engines are often preferred, even on relatively large boats, in Norway for cost reasons. Twin engines do give a extra level of safety, but as we do most of our boating in the relative safety of the fjords, I feel safe enough with only one engine.
The bathing platform is probably also a retrofit. It's far from uncommon that older boats are retrofitted with larger, more modern bathing platforms. I assume it's molded separately and then bolted to the transom. At least that's a solution I've seem more than a few times.
One of the first things I'd do if I were to buy this boat would be to go over the electrical system and batteries and bring it up to modern, safer specs. Loose batteries in a boat worries me to say the least!

It'll be interesting to see what boat I wind up with in the end. It's just 25 days until I move south, then the hunt will begin properly! It's gonna be a lot of fun! :D
 
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