Theory & Practical

[david_e]

We have nearly exhausted the theory and I now know that if we get caught out in some nasty conditions in current boat (small) that there is a good chance of knockdown. This has never happened to me yet so when it does what is the best course of action to take? Assume have fired rocket and called for help etc, the boat has been just been knocked flat and there is the family with me.

 

[rogerroger]

well the boat should right herself - might have to slacken main sheet & kicker - and if the mast is still up you can sail on - you might even find the kids jumping up and down shouting, "do it again Dad, do it again!"

It's when she rolls and you lose the rig you've got to worry...

Roger Holden
www.first-magnitude.co.uk

 

[Guest]

David, This is one hell of a question, there are so many posibilities that can change the answer.
1) Youv'e fired rocket and made call,,, did you get an answer?
2) Have you a life raft? is it deployed
3) Although knocked down, you may only need to hold on before she rights herself again?
4) Have you got the grab bag?
5) Have you got sails up?
6) Is there a drogue deployed?
7) Would anchoring improve your situation?
8) Assuming someone is coming for you have you got EPIRB or PLB to activate?
The list is nearly endlesss, but I think I know where your coming from so I would advise the following.
1) Stay with the boat as long as possible
2) Always step up into a life raft
3) Take with you a minimum of H/held VHF and flares if you have to abandon
4) Make sure your life jacket is inflated
I know the last point seems both funny and obvious, but working as I do for the RNLI you would be surprised what people do when under extreme stress and in very noisey,wet conditions. I hope this helps, but I think this question has the potential to get quite a few replies.
Peter

 

[simonjinks]

I think the term 'good chance of a knockdown' is overdoing it a little. Also reaching for the flares and sending a distress may not be prudent unless the situation is dire or if there are other considerations. Having a knockdown whilst offshore means you are doing something wrong; like showing the wrong part of the boat to the sea or having the wrong sailplan at the time. Learn from it, then change the attitude of the boat and crew and re assess your situation.

If you do not learn from the initial knockdown, the boat will continue to get rolled inflicking injuries on the crew and boat. If this happens, help may not get to you soon enough and there will be little left to help.

Help yourself first.

 

[claymore]

Knockdowns only occur in extreme conditions and are caused by a stronger than normal gust or squall. Volvo, Sidney Hobart, Fastnet 79. Not coastal british waters for man with family because our forecasting information is such that you probably wouldn't be out there in the first place. If you were - and with family - you need your bumps feeling. Don't worry about knockdowns and always remember that boats can take a lot more hammer than we can.
regards
John S

 

[ChrisW]

Why not take part in a sea survival course with all the family. I won't give you all the answers but at least all of you will learn how to cope with being in the water fully clothed how to enter a liferaft when in the water etc.

 

[billskip]

Re: Theory & Practical re claymore

Knockdowns only occur in extreme conditions..dont worry about knockdowns??.mmmmm I was on a rival 38 sailing along north africa coast dead flat and very light breeze ..ideal for any novice..no indication just the slightest of a ripple on the water..bang we were over didnt have time to watch if mast hit water..to bizy in that split second grabing other crew member being catterpulted in full flight out of boat..

ok maybe the word worry is wrong .but allways be alert ..sailing conditions in one area may seem the same in another but their often not..


an old saying comes to mind..sailors bewere of fronts of women...backs of horses....and headlands....

Bill
www.aegeansailing.co.uk

 

[claymore]

Re: Theory & Practical re claymore

Come on - how many times do we hear of knockdowns happening to families out pottering/cruising around the British Isles - the chances are very slim and my don't worry comment was aimed more at illustrating that there are a whole host of other dangers that will befall you before you ever get to the knockdown scenario. The recent posts on Portland Bill were an excellent example of that. Run down is far more likely -
js

 

[rogerroger]

Re: Theory & Practical re claymore

Happened to a mate of mine - many years ago, sunny day in the Solent, light airs, sitting around in shorts and T shirt. Next thing, huge gust out of nowhere, Moody is now lying on her side. Came straight back up but was a bit of a shock by all accounts!

Roger Holden
www.first-magnitude.co.uk

 

[claymore]

OK I take it all back

Knockdowns can happen at any time anywhere. My comment was loosely based on 40 odd years of personal experience which includes a fair bit of racing during which time the only knockdown I ever experienced happened in Loch Fyne in Scottish week when we were racing. Had we not been racing I would have been off up the hill having a walk which is what I do when I don't think the weather is suitable for sailing.
I still don't think that I'd be encouraging the original poster of this thread to believe that a knockdown is inevitable which is what is implied in his post.
John S

 

[billskip]

Re: Theory & Practical re claymore

maybe im wrong but boating should be lots of fun..the point i am trying to make is one must be alert..wasent there a very experianced sailor drowned coming out of dover not so long ago?? due to gust of wind..... when "locking" on the thames a man lost his fingers ..another was fending of with feet on a slimy wall and broke leg...there are many accidents..maybe im reading you wrong ..but i dont think its ever a good idea to assume it will never happen to you...

Bill
www.aegeansailing.co.uk

 

[rogerroger]

Re: OK I take it all back

Yes I agree - extremely rare. I've seen near knock downs in the Solent but only racing boats with way too much sail up.



Roger Holden
www.first-magnitude.co.uk

 

[claymore]

Re: Theory & Practical re claymore

I couldn't agree more Bill, the point I was making is that on a list of 20 things that can go wrong - for the average family sailor being selective about when they go out and when they don't, a knockdown must be around the 17 - 20 mark on the list.
regards
JohnS

 

[david_e]

Thanks for all the replies and the professional tips of yours Peter. It puts it all into perspective and gives some re-assurance, especially on a day like today! The nearest we have come so far is probably a long way off then, we were all out earlier this year (2nd or 3rd trip in new boat) where there was only a whisper of wind. Within the space of 5 minutes it got up to 30-35 knots, not forecast at all, my reach turned it a screaming broad reach so I rounded up into the wind, doused the gib and put two reefs in the main. It was a run for the 4 miles back to harbour but involved a gybe after 2 miles which took about 10 minutes to execute just because I was cautious about picking a lull in the wind and avoiding white water. The whole experience for the wife & kids was a bit scary but hasn't put them off, I found it unnerving but exhilarating for two reasons; gave me confidence in myself and the boat (was amazed at how well balanced she remained) and I was interested to see how quick she would go - 10.5 knots we recorded. Still, as most point out, tend not to go out if it looks like this is what is forecast. The radio was going bananas with boats everywhere calling for help.

 

[david_e]

as for the kids you might be right! The other was going to be my next question!

 

[david_e]

Thanks John, you are quite right we stay in the bar. Had my bumps felt recently and rather surprisingly they said I was mad, still they let me out!! mainly so I could carry on posting.

 

[david_e]

Good suggestion thanks, have got a learning plan mapped out including sending the short ones away to learn but hadn't thought of this.

 

[RobertMartin]

Fired Rocket and called for help!!!! Calm down, why would you do that, you are not sinking... If all your sails are down you may not be knocked down for a start, but if you are wait for the poor little boat to right itself and keep going... If your that worried, do not go.... If i fired a Rocket everytime I got knocked down on my way to Tassie I would need a new credit limit on my VISA..

Bobby aka Seawolf..
Freedom is the song of your soul..