theoretical race category question

[Kerenza]

just musing this:
Club low water race starting over 2hrs before low water with 6 hour time limit. (1820 finish sunset 1855)

13m tide, max stream 5knts, with no port of refuge for 3 hours either side of LW.

forecast 25knts plus, wind against falling tide, potential 4m breaking swell upwind.

mixed fleet sports boats to large cruisers.

what category would put this in?

Thanks
k

 

[lw395]

I'd put in the 'reasons I quite like the South Coast instead of the Bristol Channel' category.

Or maybe the 'let's spring clean the garage instead' category.

Unless you're needing to test out your crew and boat for something hardcore, it does not sound like a lot of fun. Will anyone come away from it thinking 'that was a great race'?

 

[LittleSister]

I'd put in the 'reasons I quite like the South Coast instead of the Bristol Channel' category.

Or maybe the 'let's spring clean the garage instead' category.

 

[Muddy32]

Flag Y or even, N.

 

[yoda]

Cat 3.

 

[Kerenza]

Thanks for replies so far.
Flags are out, once at the start line there is no return for 5 hours due to lack of water.

 

[lw395]

What's the probelm here?
You know what the game is, you look at the forecast and make your decision.

You say 'no return for 5 hours', implying a lack of safe havens. But is there any sheltered water where you could anchor off and await the tide? A safe haven might be a pool where you can anchor out of the worst of the weather, rather than a pub with good food.

The Bristol Channel is a non-frivolous bit of water. Some days, I'd much rather take my Laser to Llandegfedd.

 

[ridgy]

Yeah cat 3 or else do what RTIR do and impose no category but cancel certain classes as appropriate.

 

[Kerenza]

Two fleets, one IRC, other NHC.
No classes.

An anchorage with a pub - in our dreams.

 

[flaming]

Yeah cat 3 or else do what RTIR do and impose no category but cancel certain classes as appropriate.

RTIR is cat 4, not "no category".

A lot of people are, I think, allowing the forecast to impact their assessment of the category. It doesn't actually impact it. If you impose cat 3 on a race such as this then I think you rule out the sportsboats from ever racing at this venue. As Cat 3 puts stability requirements on the boats and also requires items such as permanently installed stove, permanently installed water tanks and a delivery system, separate engine start battery etc.
I think that is unnecessary for a race designed to be a day race in an Estuary. Cat 4 is where I would be in terms of OSR requirements.

That said, If the local conditions are as stated, I don't think I'd be shy to cancel.

 

[Kerenza]

Thanks Flaming, that's the sort of reply I was hoping for.
For me the issue is the mixed fleet.

 

[flaming]

Thanks Flaming, that's the sort of reply I was hoping for.
For me the issue is the mixed fleet.

Yes. Probably best handled at entry, creating a sportsboat class for boats that don't meet a certain STIX value or however you choose to categorise it and then being able to cancel that class independently of the others.
Which is what RTI, Cowes and a load of other events do.

 

[lw395]

Doesn't the category really need to be set out in the NoR?

 

[flaming]

Doesn't the category really need to be set out in the NoR?

Yes. Which is exactly why the forecast has nothing to do with the category.

 

[Kerenza]

As usual it's the fleet size and shape which makes it difficult.
This is race 3 of the new season.
IRC Fleet so far
First 34. 7
Whitbread 30
Elan 333
Reflex 38
Fast 40
Mustang 30
first 40.7
J92
Elliot 7

No category stated in the NOR.

 

[flaming]

No category stated in the NOR.

That is.... Unusual...

 

[01_Anna]

Kerenza,
the moment I read the flood warnings and checked the tides height, and weather forecasts, I was sure I will not let Junior get anywhere near her boat.So one fewer sailboat to worry about.
BTW I am NOT racing, I am only teaching Junior to race.
She is keen...I much less so.

Fair winds, if you decide to sail!

 

[Yellow Ballad]

Flags are out, once at the start line there is no return for 5 hours due to lack of water.

No idea of cat but assuming you're doing the Cardiff winter low water race?

I'm sure I'm teaching you to suck eggs here. You might not be able to get into the outer harbour at LW but you could anchor off Penarth in a Westerly, in front of the ship lock gates in a Notherly/Easterly, I've know people have anchored behind Cardiff Grounds before the Barrage. Barry would be my shout once you've passed Ranie and didn't like it, anchor in the fairway/ pickup the pilot buoy or raft against one of the deep water boats.

But a crewed up race boat in 25kts should be lapping it up!

 

[Kerenza]

First, I'm not racing this race, (no crew and not my idea of a Sunday sail) only asking opinions of a categorisation.
The detail of where there may or may not be an anchorage is obviously boat dependent and can't be applied to the whole fleet.

 

[Yellow Ballad]

only asking opinions of a categorisation.

I only mentioned as if it is then it may affect the Category.

Barry is a safe haven (2 hours before LW will get you there easy enough and it's deep enough to get any yacht behind the breakwater). Cardiff, yes deep keels may drag through mud to get into the outer harbour at LW but there's places to seek refuge without tieing upto a pontoon in pretty much any wind direction using the mud banks as a break water. Once they're covered you'll have enough water to get into the locks.