The Tarquin Trader Saga - Update

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Re: How do I get Trader (Tarquin) to respond?

Best just have his day in court IMHO.... and good luck to him... i've followed this sorry tale with a sense of disbelief....

 

[rickp]

Re: How do I get Trader (Tarquin) to respond?

No, not easy because some mail clients prompt before returning a "read receipt", so the person could just click "don't send". I'm not sure there is a guaranteed way to tell if an e-mail has been read, I'm afraid. (At least, not one that would stand up in court without some pretty detail forensics).

Rick

 

[Gludy]

Re: How do I get Trader (Tarquin) to respond?

Good advice and yes - I can track.
They even responded to the odd email to say that they were going to respond - they never did but those emails also established a trace.

I even resorted to copies by post to them.

In the end they will not enter any sort of dialogue because they will lose -I am being totally reasonable.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Re: How do I get Trader (Tarquin) to respond?

You'd need to request copies of their mail server logs via the courts....

 

[Gludy]

Re: How do I get Trader (Tarquin) to respond?

Drumbeat is still for sale and was a partX that is clearly their property.

Mind you, given that even a new boat from them is delivered less anodes I have no idea what state Drumbeat will be in now after being their for 13 months.

My legal path is clear - that is not the problem. I am just so frustrated that they cannot see common sense and respond to each point so that we can simplify it all.

 

[Gludy]

Re: How do I get Trader (Tarquin) to respond?

I have my own email server log talking to their server and accepting delivery.
All my stuff and email server is on my own server farm!

 

[itsonlymoney]

Re: How do I get Trader (Tarquin) to respond?

Good point your absolutely right.

 

[rickp]

Re: How do I get Trader (Tarquin) to respond?

Though delivery logs do not imply that any given message was read - so you are wise to continue with the paper trail. I agree its very likely they are reading the e-mails (because they have read and responded to others) but perhaps tricky to prove that to a courts satisfaction.

Rick

 

[Gludy]

Re: How do I get Trader (Tarquin) to respond?

Rick
Also when they respond they leave the emial trail on tne end.
Plus the paper trail by snail mail.
Plus witnesses.
Plus the phyiscial evidence.

The issue is really very simple.

They delivered by any standard a dnagerous and sub standard boat that could not even be safely used until late July. Today there are still major issues. They are more than aware of them - for example they have referred to the survey report in emails but have not answered a single point on it.

It now seems they are painting me the same way as they painted that poor bloke who paraded outside their boats at Southampton as some sort of nutter that does not really understand.

 

[rickp]

Re: How do I get Trader (Tarquin) to respond?

Sure - I just wanted to make it clear that delivery logs and "read receipt" are insufficient to prove a particular e-mail was read. I know you know that (and the factors here are different) - but others may not.

Be interesting to see what the next move is by Trader (ref your other post). Its very hard to see what justifiable reason they have for many of their (in)actions, it seems.

Cheers,
Rick

 

[AJW]

Re: How do I get Trader (Tarquin) to respond?

This saga is incredible. Were it a relatively low priced item, then they (Trader) might be able to paint you as some kind of overzealous, never-going-to-be-pleased nutter. But with a boat and a price tag of GBP 1 Million then one assumes you have to be a smart cookie to be in the fortunate position to spend that much on a boat, and rightly demand a high quality product for that not insubstantial sum!

Furthermore, it would seem as illustrated by your recounting of this saga that you are a capable and tenacious individual who isn't going to let them get away with this and will pursue the legal options pretty much regardless of cost?
In that case I fail to see what their aim is by ignoring you and hoping you go away, cos clearly that isn't going to happen. More power to you I say and best of luck!

 

[Hurricane]

Re: How do I get Trader (Tarquin) to respond?

Nearly up to 3000 viewings now.
I wonder how many of them are in the trade - viewing annonymously.

 

[jhr]

Re: How do I get Trader (Tarquin) to respond?

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder how many of them are in the trade - viewing annonymously.

[/ QUOTE ] Some, no doubt.

No offence to Paul, who imho has had a totally bum deal and been treated appallingly, but I wonder if any of them are vowing never to sell him a boat? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[RogerRat]

Re: Don\'t get Trader. Get A.S.A. or T.S.O. to Get \'em.

Just to add a few pence worth...

Surely this is now a case for Trading Standards Office and the Advertising Standards Authority, possibly even Rogue traders or Watchdog! If they get sight of this saga and the documentary and expert opinions available, they can surely chase or prosecute successfully.

This could save you a fortune in legal expense and time for case preparation.

The way its going, you've lost 'Drumbeat' (a far superior boat imho) and close to 3/4 million pounds, a year of boating, been totally stressed out, made to look mad / /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Even if the Trader is fixed correctly, you will have bought a boat that is not suitable for the purpose for which it was intended because they misrepresented its capability, seaworthyness and safety as a long distance passage making motor yacht in their advertising and sales promotional literature. You can also prove that it was not of merchantable quality! It may have been made in Taiwan but you purchased it in the UK and as such, you as a consumer have rights.

There are laws against this type of advertising and supply of inferior goods. They can and should be stopped by the authorities, it shouldn't be left to unsuspecting individuals like yourself. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

I really wish you the best with the outcome, I walked past the Trader at Sibs and pointed out to several friends that that was one stand to avoid. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Gludy]

Re: How do I get Trader (Tarquin) to respond?

I do not take any offence to that - it made me laugh.

In practice, as Andy Ball has already explained, I have been very, very mild in my responses to date - its only now that having met a brick wall of no response, I have been forced into one final attempt to make them respond. And it has worked- i got the first response tonight! It will be published in full together with my reply tonight.

 

[[2068]]

Re: How do I get Trader (Tarquin) to respond?

You can get "proof of posting", but the current email system has no equivalent of recorded delivery.

A read receipt means very little, apart from that if you don't receive one, it might mean that the recipient didn't get it. Or it might mean that they used WebMail to read it instead.

If you did get one, it means that an email client somewhere did something to trigger the sending of a read receipt. I would imagine that making the leap to proving that a particular person actually read that email would be very hard work in a court of law.

dv.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Re: How do I get Trader (Tarquin) to respond?

Whilst i have every sympathy with you on this - the price of the boat is irrelevent because the same issues would apply if it was an 18ft cabin cruiser - I can understand why Tarquin are staying silent on the matter.

they have probably realised they are in a no-win situation, and the list of defects is going to cost them a bomb, even close them down. If they accept your complaints, they have admitted liability.

if they sit quiet and wait for the summons, they might think they can get away with less. Furthermore, the more you get frustrated and go public, they will be taking notes and could use them as part of their defence that you were unreasonable.

i am NOT supporting them, or condoning their action, just saying that's how they might be thinking.

EDIT: I read the other thread about the latest dialogue after posting the above.

 

[BrendanS]

Re: How do I get Trader (Tarquin) to respond?

It's fairly easy to get proof of reading, and to see who else read the email, but it would be hard to use in court

 

[Gludy]

Re: Tarquin respond

Tonight after returning home I received this email from James Course of Tarquin it was in response to my email sent on the 30th September some five weeks ago and came after the whole matter expanded today with a direct challange by me to Tony Chappell.
It is publsihed un-edited
-------------------------------------------------------
Good Afternoon Paul,

I am sorry that you feel that we achieved so little during our recent visit – I would beg to differ. In fact we (Peter and I) have achieved a great deal during our four visits, especially bearing in mind the complete lack of infrastructure that we have in Swansea. In fact we have been fortunate in being allowed to carry out as much work as we have in the marina (fiberglass work, cutting, grinding, paint spraying etc) – had Swansea been a Premier of MDL facility we certainly would not have been allowed to do this.

I do not understand your references to our “fitting badly scratched panels back onto each side (of the boat)”. The panels that were cut out to provide access for the sealing panels were bonded back into place, filled faired and re-sprayed. If you are referring to the outer (removable) panels that are screwed in place, these were carefully removed, stored on the pontoon clear of the boat whilst work was carried out and then replaced – as we did on previous visits when you were in attendance. Although your representative (Peter Wray) was not around whilst we were working on the boat during our most recent visit, I called him and asked him to come to the boat and go through the work we had carried out before we left. He did this and yet made no reference to any scratched panels.

I am sorry for the lack of the coffee table – this is completely down to me. I simply forgot it. It now sits next to my desk, still wrapped in its protective foam covering clearly marked for 56-200 and so I will not forget it on our next visit.

I agree with you concerning the engine room roof. Although we attempted to clean it once I had replaced the repaired light, the action of the salt water on the aluminium facing has caused corrosion that cannot be removed. Although the ceiling/floor is sound proofed, if we were to fit a further surface layer (either rigid or semi-rigid) it would both cover the existing surface and provide additional sound insulation for the saloon.

We have already agreed a number of joinery repairs that need to be carried out – the bunk cabin, mitred joints on the saloon window surrounds and the damaged veneer adjacent to the lower helm come to mind. The problem (as already stated) is the complete lack of infrastructure in Swansea in which to carry out these repairs. Your boat has a sprayed lacquer finish, which if we attempt to repair locally with a brush finish will just stand out – probably more so than the original defect.

The same problem arises with regard to gelcoat and fiberglass repairs – we simply do not have access to either the skilled labour or facilities to do these repairs in Swansea.

I have repeatedly offered to bring your boat back to Emsworth (at our expense) so that we can deal with the outstanding warranty. To date you have repeatedly refused this offer, hence in total we have now made five trips to Swansea. However we are now reaching the point where the outstanding jobs simply cannot be carried out with the boat where it is. I therefore now repeat again our offer to collect your boat, return it to Emsworth in order to allow us to carry out the remaining repairs in a sensible manner. Upon completion of the work we would return the boat (again at our expense) to her home berth in Swansea.

Whilst you appear intent on carrying out a ‘trial by internet’ (although you don’t appear to have made it very clear that you removed the boat from our yard without settling a £15,000 invoice), I have tried, and continue to do so, to deal with your problems in a professional manner. It is worth noting that at the end of June this year we were down to a consolidated jobs list of 12 items – by mid September this list had grown and you were claiming a total of 66 items – including replacement rudders when the rudders fitted to your boat are exactly in accordance with the specification and exactly the same as those fitted to every other Trader afloat?

The only sensible way in which we are going to be able to complete the warranty repairs is to return the boat to Emsworth. Please give this proposal some consideration and let me have your response.

James Course



--------------------------------------------------------

 

[Gludy]

Re: Tarquin respond

It took over 5 weeks for the response to come - it was in reply to an email already published early on this thread. There can be little doubt that tis came as a direct result of Tarquin feeling the heat today.

I aplogise for the detailed, long response, I am left with little choice given the contents of the email from James Course. If you do read it all, i think it will give you an insight into the nature of the problem.

-----------------------------------------------------------
James
Thank you for your long awaited response late this afternoon.
Despite it containing many untruths, I have published it unedited on the forum.

For the record in July 2006 you came to Swansea to do two major jobs. One was to actually attach the engine thrust to the boat because the two screws into a hollow box section had detached itself on the port side and was about to on the Starboard side. This issue was raised in writing with you when cracks were noticed by Andy ball from this forum on the port side thrust bracket as early as January 2006 but we were continually informed in writing and verbally that there was nothing to worry about. It cost me almost £1k calling in a specialist company to expose the out of line shafts and this problem of the engine thrust not being secured to the boat – a problem that I knew I had but you refuted. So are you willing to refund my direct cost in that matter and pay my Fine-Align Ltd bill?

Are you also prepared to pay the almost £400 Caterpillar bill I incurred in transit to Swansea when water was found in the gearbox oil by tests carried out by Cat?

The second task was to insert baffles that had been missed during construction to stop saltwater being directed into the roof of the engine room even filling light fitting on the engine room roof with water.

Both these jobs made the boat un-seaworthy and the first problem made the boat dangerous to use. You had no option but to come to Swansea to do these as the boat could not be used at all with those problems. It was July 18th when the boat was first made seaworthy - it arrived in early December 2005 and you took it to the Boat show in a deplorable state not giving a damn for the boat.

At the time of your visit we went through a number of items – down lights, stereo speakers, table, woodwork etc. I continually sent you the complete list including the points from the survey that you have always ignored. I asked that you answer each point in turn indicating agreement. disagreement or in need of discussion. This email was sent week after week and you always failed to answer it. You had received it because you emailed back with a promise to answer but never did. All these emails and letters were being copied to my lawyer and others who watched the saga unfold.

In effect you were totally ignoring the survey report and any point that did not suit and of course as you explained to me the yard in Taiwan was picking up your bill including expenses for the work on both those jobs – so it was not even costing Tarquin. This point was noted because when it comes to cost Tarquin a penny there is stiff resistance.

So the list has hardly changed at all, at one point I simply abstracted the points from the survey report to add instead of simply stating points as per survey report.

Do you agree that you verbally dismissed any chance of a replacement windscreen despite it being in the survey report including photographs?
In any even, seeing as this point is now in the public domain do you agree to fit a non-distorted wind screen and fit it properly?

Are you now willing to answer the complete list including all the survey points so that we can separate the issues into those agreed and not agreed? If so you have my emails – please answer now.

“I do not understand your references to our “fitting badly scratched panels back onto each side (of the boat)”.

The outer panels were scratched in July and have even more scratches now – you said you were going to paint them – you did not. I can take photos no problem. I want them back as new. My person looking after my boat buy the way was totally disappointed in what was achieved. Now was his job to inspect anything. The panels are scratched – I would like them as new. I paid over $40,000 USA for a blue hull and now have scratches showing white. Are you willing to do this? Peter Wray did not check the panels with you as well you know.

“am sorry for the lack of the coffee table – this is completely down to me. I simply forgot it. It now sits next to my desk, still wrapped in its protective foam covering clearly marked for 56-200 and so I will not forget it on our next visit.”

But I even gave you a simple check list of items to bring such as table, down lights, stereo speakers etc and you forgot them all!!!! I then emailed you and you did not respond – after a whole year of denial from you and four months of failing to respond to my key point email and survey report, I eventually gave up hope and have used the forum to expose your service and product. In fact I believe that it is only the forum and pressure on your company that has resulted in this email from you.

“I agree with you concerning the engine room roof. Although we attempted to clean it once I had replaced the repaired light, the action of the salt water on the aluminum facing has caused corrosion that cannot be removed. Although the ceiling/floor is sound proofed, if we were to fit a further surface layer (either rigid or semi-rigid) it would both cover the existing surface and provide additional sound insulation for the saloon.”

This is progress, I wish you had answered my email with that – are you stating that you will fit an agreed sound proofing to cover all the roof at your cost? Or do I detect a ‘Traderism’ within your remark which means you may have the check to try and charge me something for it?

We did agree to a number of joinery jobs being carried out and you stated you would bring a joiner but you would never answer that list in writing on those same points week, after week.. No mention was ever made of doing the joinery work outside Swansea. You even told peter Wray you were going to do it on your last visit!

The same applies to the glass fibre repairs I have written time after time asking you to confirm which you agree to do and there was no answer.

“have repeatedly offered to bring your boat back to Emsworth (at our expense) so that we can deal with the outstanding warranty. To date you have repeatedly refused this offer, hence in total we have now made five trips to Swansea.”

That is totally untrue.
Your first trip to Swansea was to inspect the detached thrust block and to get me to sign the warranty which you took great pride in explaining to me had signed away any claim for lack of use before then (not legally true). I remember sitting back wondering what sort of company does that then glories in the fact that the customer has been trapped by them. The other trips were to do the work on attaching the thrust brackets to the boat and stopping sea water being jetted into the engine roof –a a job only completed a few weeks ago in October 2005 - the absurdity of your twisted claim is exposed because the boat was not even seaworthy and in a fit state to be taken to Emsworth! What were you going to do take a boat that did not have its engine thrust attached to the boat!!!!! Yet again you try to swing things around to me leaving the truth well behind but because it is not truthful common sense prevails to expose the ludicrous nature of your claim. I now christen this technique a ‘Traderism’ If you can distort things to manage to get a swipe at the customer and so hide behind the smoke screen do not hesitate to do so.

“have repeatedly offered to bring your boat back to Emsworth (at our expense) so that we can deal with the outstanding warranty. To date you have repeatedly refused this offer, hence in total we have now made five trips to Swansea. However we are now reaching the point where the outstanding jobs simply cannot be carried out with the boat where it is. I therefore now repeat again our offer to collect your boat, return it to Emsworth in order to allow us to carry out the remaining repairs in a sensible manner. Upon completion of the work we would return the boat (again at our expense) to her home berth in Swansea.”

Totally without any foundation in truth whatsoever - you had not been answering my fault list since July 2006 – so please tell me how such an offer could even have been made? First the jobs have to be agreed and only then can such arrangement be made. I have a fully documented written record that proves that must be totally false. Wow – that pure invention even takes me back a step! I will have no problem in court defeating that one! You are claiming that you have agreed to do what jobs that can only be done in Emsworth? New keel? Or how about doing a whole range of simple things such as the replacement stereo speakers promised in July and still not here …. I will even fit them myself. Again your attempt to claim that somehow you have been waiting to do all these guarantee jobs and I have been refusing is totally absurd and the truth is clear to anyone who examines the facts.

“Whilst you appear intent on carrying out a ‘trial by internet’ (although you don’t appear to have made it very clear that you removed the boat from our yard without settling a £15,000 invoice),”

There you go again. I had almost a started a separate thread on the way Trader treats customers when they collect their boat by inventing an invoice and making threats about arresting the boat. As you know I refuted this last minute invoice and pointed out in writing that I did not even know the company who had invoiced it and that it even included items that I have proof of payment for. In writing I offered to discuss it and point out these errors and the fabrications then reach and agreement. But you refused to do that. I even offered to pay the £15k into a court when I took out an injunction to stop any of your plans and then deal with the matter later. You accepted none of these options so many weeks later after the boat was back in Swansea I received the same invoice from Tarquin the company that sold me the boat and I wrote enclosing a detailed response and a copy of the proof of payment. I sent this by email and letter and you have never responded since but know in true ‘Traderism’ style you seek to try to embarrass me the customer and muddy the waters. I had paid you close onto £1 million in advance of even seeing the boat and you seek to try this smear technique on me concerning a matter I referred to earlier in this thread when I stated that the way Trader treat a customer when collecting their boats beggars belief. So why do you not answer my letter an this matter and try to resolve it – the ball has been in your court for 5 months or more.


“I have tried, and continue to do so, to deal with your problems in a professional manner. It is worth noting that at the end of June this year we were down to a consolidated jobs list of 12 items – by mid September this list had grown and you were claiming a total of 66 items – including replacement rudders when the rudders fitted to your boat are exactly in accordance with the specification and exactly the same as those fitted to every other Trader afloat?

All I did was add the points from the survey carried out just 4 days after I collected the boat from you. The rudders were corroded on a brand new boat and anodes had previously been found to be missing – a well recorded and witnessed fact.

Here is the image of the corroded rudder from the survey report:-

Do you reall7y consider that this corrosion is acceptable on a boat 4 days old? This is what you do, just try and muddy the waters on the survey report but never respond in writing. I published this image on the forum many months ago - you have it within the survey report and now you just ignore the image and the report and try to paint me as unreasonable. I leave it to the forumites by asking if they think that this is an acceptable level of rudder corrosion on a 4 day old boat?
“The only sensible way in which we are going to be able to complete the warranty repairs is to return the boat to Emsworth. Please give this proposal some consideration and let me have your response.”

My response is that the next step is to agree which jobs you are willing to carry out under warranty. This has to be done before any arrangements can be made. You may well make a note against any that you consider require the boat to be in Emsworth. Further I can say that all work would have to pass the supervision and examination of a qualified and mutually agreed surveyor.

I also need agreement that you refund me for all the independent surveys that I have been forced to have done providing those surveys resulted in exposing a fault that you accepted required remedy at your expense.

In order to even begin this process you need to answer every point in the list I have been sending you since July and which to date you have refused to answer.

The need for long emails like this can be avoided if you simply stick to the facts and answer my points on that list I have been sending you.

This is not trail by Internet, this is me using the Internet to firstly openly demonstrate to others the service you offer your customers who spend £1m with you. How you treat those customers including your readiness to smear them and it was the last route left to me to try and force a response - it took a lot but it did get a response and now we can hopefully , openly resolve the guarantee issues.

I have asked a number of questions of you in the email – please answer them all.

Paul Burgess