The Saga Continues But A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To the Forum

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derekbland

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And so, having travelled a long way to view a boat today that I had stuck my neck out and had a had surveyed and sea trialled. I was ready to do a deal if all went well. The owner, nice chap, took me out on it and all seemed good. I went through a long list of things that the surveyor had noticed and I would estimate 95% of which were not a problem at all if he had switched the right switch. Anyhoo, we negotiated and agreed a price and shook on it. Two minutes later, the owner said that the original sales doc showing VAT paid was missing and so after 4 months of hassle raising finance, many miles looking at boats, yet again my dreams were temporarily dashed. I am pragmatic and hence used the word "temporarily". The owner tried to contact the previous owner but couldn't get hold of him. A while later, after I had left, the owner said that the original owner had contacted him and said he was sure that he had the doc but wasn't back until 19th. Thus, there is some light at the end of the tunnel but I am not going to get too excited yet.

The most frustrating part is that I had lined up an instructor who was going to do my Day Skipper practical and move the boat over 5 days. Feeling a little miserable and numb, my day was about to liven up. As I walked towards the terminal an elderly, very tanned gent, wearing shorts and dressed as though to halt his aging, started staggering to his left (my right). At first I thought he had some kind of disability but I watched him as he hept going eventually falling about 2' in front of me. I immediately knelt down and started asking some relevant questions. He looked at me a little dazed. All my training was coming back to me and so was prepared to get to the bottom of it. Around 5 seconds later I dsicovered what was wrong with him. A woman came from my left and in a strong Scottich accent, said, "he's f....... drunk". She started, tugging agressively at his arm exclaiming, several times, "get up ye' f...... drunken B". After two attempts, she said, "ok just f-in lie there then ye drunken B". Please note that the expletives were not abbreviated. I wondered if I could be of any further assistance and decided not, and carried on. Seconds later I saw two police hoccifers and mentioned it to them and they said they would go and have a look.

If there is any moral to the story, it's that when life p...es's on your chips, there is always something around the corner to make you smile.

Thank you for staying awake, I hope.
 
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derekbland said:
And so, having travelled a long way to view a boat today that I had stuck my neck out and had a had surveyed and sea trialled. I was ready to do a deal if all went well. The owner, nice chap, took me out on it and all seemed good. I went through a long list of things that the surveyor had noticed and I would estimate 95% of which were not a problem at all if he had switched the right switch. Anyhoo, we negotiated and agreed a price and shook on it. Two minutes later, the owner said that the original sales doc showing VAT paid was missing and so after 4 months of hassle raising finance, many miles looking at boats, yet again my dreams were temporarily dashed. I am pragmatic and hence used the word "temporarily". The owner tried to contact the previous owner but couldn't get hold of him. A while later, after I had left, the owner said that the original owner had contacted him and said he was sure that he had the doc but wasn't back until 19th. Thus, there is some light at the end of the tunnel but I am not going to get too excited yet.

The most frustrating part is that I had lined up an instructor who was going to do my Day Skipper practical and move the boat over 5 days. Feeling a little miserable and numb, my day was about to liven up. As I walked towards the terminal an elderly, very tanned gent, wearing shorts and dressed as though to halt his aging, started staggering to his left (my right). At first I thought he had some kind of disability but I watched him as he hept going eventually falling about 2' in front of me. I immediately knelt down and started asking some relevant questions. He looked at me a little dazed. All my training was coming back to me and so was prepared to get to the bottom of it. Around 5 seconds later I dsicovered what was wrong with him. A woman came from my left and in a strong Scottich accent, said, "he's f....... drunk". She started, tugging agressively at his arm exclaiming, several times, "get up ye' f...... drunken B". After two attempts, she said, "ok just f-in lie there then ye drunken B". Please note that the expletives were not abbreviated. I wondered if I could be of any further assistance and decided not, and carried on. Seconds later I saw two police hoccifers and mentioned it to them and they said they would go and have a look.

If there is any moral to the story, it's that when life p...es's on your chips, there is always something around the corner to make you smile.

Thank you for staying awake, I hope.
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good luck ,trying to get a good boat is hard
 
Depending on what you are paying is it worth worrying about. On all of my boats I don't think I have ever had one. But I don't take them out of the UK
 
Bigplumbs said:
Depending on what you are paying is it worth worrying about. On all of my boats I don't think I have ever had one. But I don't take them out of the UK
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That is the first time I have heard someone suggest it isn't worth worrying about. Can you tell me what happens when you try to sell a boat on? Even the owner said that he would not buy without the proof of VAT. The VAT would be in excess of £20k.
 
derekbland said:
That is the first time I have heard someone suggest it isn't worth worrying about. Can you tell me what happens when you try to sell a boat on? Even the owner said that he would not buy without the proof of VAT. The VAT would be in excess of £20k.
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None of the boats I have bought have been over £20K in total so no real issue. At that level I think the process is loads easier you just agree a price and buy/sell. Paperwork is only a problem if people make it one. I know of loads of people who have bought this way. But at the value you are talking bout I agree it is rather more important.

As to selling I seldom sell anything.... Just my way

Dennis
 
Sadly, I doubt the original will ever be found. The broker will have requested the owner to find the paperwork when taking the boat on to sell

I wouldn't even view a boat without seeing a photo of the paperwork. And getting finance for yourself or a future owner will be harder without all the papers.

What make is the boat? Who was it first sold through?
 
petem said:
Sadly, I doubt the original will ever be found. The broker will have requested the owner to find the paperwork when taking the boat on to sell

I wouldn't even view a boat without seeing a photo of the paperwork. And getting finance for yourself or a future owner will be harder without all the papers.

What make is the boat? Who was it first sold through?
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The current owner says he has seen the doc but for some reason it wasn't handed over. He has contacted the previous owner who is sure he has the doc but is not back home until 19th, we'll see. This does seem somewhat strange as the current owner has owned a number of boats and is very experienced and so why it wasn't handed over at point of sale seems unusual. The original company that sold it is long gone and apparently the company that took over Sealine will not have kept copies of old original back the early 2000's.

It is fairly simple, no proof, no purchase.
 
My view is that there must be a way to deal with this after all it is only a sodding piece of paper. If not it seems like a good boat might as well be thrown away. That simply cant be right.

I dislike Paperwork and the reliance people put on it. I am sure there are those that could 'Produce or indeed reproduce' the VAT invoice...... If it is an old boat who would know
 
Bigplumbs said:
My view is that there must be a way to deal with this after all it is only a sodding piece of paper. If not it seems like a good boat might as well be thrown away. That simply cant be right.

I dislike Paperwork and the reliance people put on it. I am sure there are those that could 'Produce or indeed reproduce' the VAT invoice...... If it is an old boat who would know
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Agreed and I cant be bothered but there must be an opportunity for someone to set up a business here that keeps copies of original sales docs.
 
derekbland said:
Agreed and I cant be bothered but there must be an opportunity for someone to set up a business here that keeps copies of original sales docs.
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Which is voluntary.
Better still compulsory boat reg like say Italy , the “ log book “ think like a U.K. car reg doc V5 is kept on the boat .
It’s a actually a little blue book with all the relevant info.
Basically for a private individual to reg a boat they must show VAT is paid , bit like to reg a new U.K. car I guess the dealer needs to show car tax and other duties are taken care off .

Of course once a Gov data base the said gov could use that to levy other annual charges. Like VED in the U.K. car analogy of some form of boat tax like Italy and France , that’s the danger of a gov centralised reg system.

Returning to the U.K. vat paid worry , how real is the actual problem .
I mean we can all see the theory of officials turning up and demanding proof of vat paid status , but how real is that in some sleepy U.K. marina / mooring in the dead of February ?

Been stoped 3 times in France once in Italy by officials only the Italians ( Guardia Finanza ) went through the financials inc taxes due as I was in the process of moving a IT reg boat away .

Not sure if the U.K. has a maritime equivalent,with enough time on its hands and enough budget to fund a nice set powerful patrol craft to go bouncing around in :)“ doing “ everybody on a sunny bank Hol ?
Er —- with more important immigration issues / border control etc etc .

Secondly if said craft has a low aspect ratio the staff will be off playing the sick card - bad backs in the U.K. and the whole system would collapse with employees making industrial injury claims - only in the U.K.
 
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derekbland said:
Agreed and I cant be bothered but there must be an opportunity for someone to set up a business here that keeps copies of original sales docs.
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Who would use it?

Boat owner A is bothered about correct paperwork, makes sure he gets it, keeps it safe and hands it on to the next owner.

Boat owner B isn't bothered about correct paperwork, doesn't care if he gets it, doesn't have it to pass on to the next owner.

I can't see either of them opting to pay a third party to hold on to it for them.
 
Portofino said:
Which is voluntary.
Better still compulsory boat reg like say Italy , the “ log book “ think like a U.K. car reg doc V5 is kept on the boat .
It’s a actually a little blue book with all the relevant info.
Basically for a private individual to reg a boat they must show VAT is paid , bit like to reg a new U.K. car I guess the dealer needs to show car tax and other duties are taken care off .

Of course once a Gov data base the said gov could use that to levy other annual charges. Like VED in the U.K. car analogy of some form of boat tax like Italy and France , that’s the danger of a gov centralised reg system.

Returning to the U.K. vat paid worry , how real is the actual problem .
I mean we can all see the theory of officials turning up and demanding proof of vat paid status , but how real is that in some sleepy U.K. marina / mooring in the dead of February ?

Been stoped 3 times in France once in Italy by officials only the Italians ( Guardia Finanza ) went through the financials inc taxes due as I was in the process of moving a IT reg boat away .

Not sure if the U.K. has a maritime equivalent,with enough time on its hands and enough budget to fund a nice set powerful patrol craft to go bouncing around in :)“ doing “ everybody on a sunny bank Hol ?
Er —- with more important immigration issues / border control etc etc .

Secondly if said craft has a low aspect ratio the staff will be off playing the sick card - bad backs in the U.K. and the whole system would collapse with employees making industrial injury claims - only in the U.K.
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We were checked in Bonafacio along with all boats on the quay.

They were specifically looking for VAT payment or proof of non residence. Nothing else.

In the UK I cant say, but boats move!

A foreign official wants you to prove it ... it is not his problem !
 
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