The perfect family trailer sailer!

[jimeleeo]

Hi,

I know this question has been asked MANY times before, and I've read lots of the answers, but I am interested to hear your views to help me with my research!

For the past few years I have sacrificed my first love and owned a sports boat for the family (Salcombe Flyer530). Its been great fun, but its time to get back to my roots and SAIL!

Looking for a trailer sailer - not sure of the pros/cons of swing vs lifting keels? Going to use in Poole harbour and enjoy being able to get to the beach... kids love playing! Also will have a shallow mooring, so winding the keel needs to not take forever.

Small cabin is important, but cockpit space is vital to have room for the 5 of us - and we all like to take friends ocasionally on the boat!

The Jeanneau Sun 2000 looks absolutely perfect, but only have about 7K in the budget... looked at Jaguar 21/22, Micro 2000, Gem 18, Etap 22 etc etc nothing quite compares to the Jeanneau.

So what do I do... get a swing/lifting keel, or bildge keel (like the Horizon Hunter 21) and accept that we cannot go right up to the beach!

Hoping you have some good advice for me.
Thanks!!
James.

 

[jimeleeo]

one more thing...

What is the difference between the Jeanneau Sun 2000 & the Sunfast 20 ?

Slightly different designs - but very similar large cockpit, small cabin etc etc.

Both look perfect for my needs, but which would be best! ... and how to find one I can afford :-(

Thanks in advance
James.

 

[Kelpie]

This may not be the most helpful reply but since no-one is offering anything...
I wouldn't get hung up about a particular model of boat when buying used. There are plenty of different types available and every design is a compromise. The condition of the outboard and trailer will be a significant factor at the price range you're looking at, and condition of sails is important too- so you'll do well to keep an open mind and find a boat of whatever type that has been well loved and is in top condition.

 

[Little Rascal]

Don't underestimate the launching/recovery with a fixed keeler.

I have a fixed fin Hunter Europa and need about 4 feet to float her off the trailer. Compared to my Hunter 490 which needed about 2 feet it has become a much bigger job to launch and limits the slipways I can launch from. Fine for me 'cause I didn't expect a daysailer.

Depends on where you plan to sail obviously but you are talking about boats at the top end of trailability. Something of this size is really a trailable yacht - don't expect to daysail unless you can handle the work/faff needed! If you really need to go this big (I regularly had 5 in my 490! ) consider something with a full lifting keel, water ballast or at least a well thought out trailer/recovery system.

Jon

 

[Little Rascal]

Having just reread your OP, I've just realised that what I said re:launching probably won't bother you too much if you intend to keep her on a mooring!

However bear in mind that some trailer sailers are really not very stable without the keel down.

There are plenty of stories of boats capsizing on moorings, notably the Gem 18 and Jaguar 21.

You might find something like an Anderson 22 better as it's ballast remains low with the keel up. They don't dry out upright if the bottom is hard though.
For a big cockpit a Hawk 20 maybe?

PBO did a really good series on trailer sailers in 2001 if you can get hold of them. It was PBOs 413-420. The Sun Fast 20 came out well (PBO 418). The Sun 2000 was a design update that began production in 1999. I would probably look at the Beneteau First 210 but then you're talking still more money!

 

[ianat182]

You might get a Pearson or its earlier sister the Seal 26 or 22 for the budget you suggest, but getting much newer than these would be difficult for shallow draft etc. An all tide mooring would be ideal, when you could think about a Seawych or similar.
As an example the Hawk20, a popular trailerable sailer with a cuddy/cabin comes around the £20K mark new(though I think includes the trailer, possibly an outboard). These boats are regularly sailed in races in the Christchurch area and they also have a large cockpit, and lifting keel.
We have three or four Hawks on the Hamble.
Perhaps a visit to the Boats and outboards site may offer a secondhand one. I believe they claim to be unsinkable too!

 

[Billows]

Having sailed a bit in one, I would go for the Etap 22.

 

[TSB240]

Trapper TS 240

Old design but a proper little yacht goes like stink for a 24 footer... You can embarrass some much bigger boats.

Doesnt go sideways or slam up wind like a bilge keeler.

Proper deep vertical lifting keel and bulb makes for a stiff boat with a tall powerful fractional rig.

Mine is hydraulic so lifting done by push button.Will dry out.

Sleeps 2+2 with all the kit loads of space in comparison to the new day sailers from Benny and Jenny.

Has a proper cooker not a portable gas ring two huge cockpit lockers plus under cockpit storage for a flubber.

Outboard in a well so no prop up in the air in the bumpy stuff.

Rare but there are a couple on the market at the moment snap one up if you can.

Spent a long time researching the market and these are a little known gem of a TS. Should be able to get a good one with trailer for your budget.Make sure keel assembly has been refurbished good advice for any TS purchase.

 

[jetwake]

How about a Macgregor 26? They go for very low prices sometimes, and for not very old models too. They always strike me as a very good bargain in terms of getting a lot for a little.

Never sailed one though, but I would like one!

D

 

[BAtoo]

Depends what you mean by a small cabin - the Drascombe Longboat Criuser has a small 2berth cabin and a huge cockpit, trails easily, in your price range; not the most exciting sailer though. Info here - http://www.drascombe-association.org.uk/index.php

Alternatively an older Beneteau or Jeanneau or Etap lift keel from the 80's or so. I find this site good for looking around with this as an example in your range. Some boats on here are in the UK - tho not this one !!
http://www.eyb-boats.com/en/ads/sailing-boats/beneteau/first-22/_R_853_564657_.htm

Alternatively Ancasta, Yachtworld etc. sites

 

[Lakesailor]

Have a look here for a few more suggestions

 

[jimeleeo]

thanks for all your help

Hi All,

Thanks for all your help & advice (so far ... more welcome of course!).

The family boat when I was a kid was a drascombe lugger which was a great boat - but it certainly wasn't an exciting sail. My dad still loves the idea of a drascombe coaster when he retires. For now he continues sailing a Hunter Horizon 23... lovely boat, but can't get close enough to beaches for me.

I'd not heard of the TS240 before, so I will do some further research there and see what I can find.

In the end I guess everything is a balance of sailing performance, stability, space & tow ability!

That Jeanneau SunFast 20 looks very appealling... perhaps I have to find some more pennies!

Thanks again.
James.

 

[alahol2]

Something like this... http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/F209880 may be an option.

 

[Alfie168]

The Sunfast 20 is really more a big dinghy, and none the worse for it I have to say, but you have to adjust your sailing style accordingly as they are very light and they are best sailed pretty flat, which means chucking in reefs early and using crew weight more for stability, which is not an uncommon thing to have to do on many trailer sailers. They respond to sail tweaking as well, with the ability to seriously depower the main being a useful attribute.

The same applies to the beautiful Evolution 22, which also needs good dinghy style sailing techniques, but punishes the clumsy. Quality is variable on them I gather.

My Dehler 22 is really designed for Lakes, and as such is a bit overcanvassed in the mainsail (tall mast), so it can be a bit frustrating when you want to make use of a good blow to find it really doesn't want to know on full main. Take in a reef, and lo and behold, she flies and is so much fun across the wind, and when you get back there is (just) enough room to make a cuppa and have a lie down. Good quality, quite rare in the UK, cockpit is smallish and centre main sheet gets in the way.

Etaps are well worth a look, and very nicely made into the bargain. the 22i is the one to look out for.

I'd always look at a Pandora as a family boat. They sail really well, much less like a dinghy and more like a 'proper yacht' but are on the narrow side. The upside is that prices are very reasonable. I was looking at one on the hard at Woodbridge a few weeks back, and thought how well it carried its years. Its a Van de Stadt design like my Dehler(but very different).

In fact there are oodles of excellent boats in this category. You just need to fix your budget and you can have a nice boat from about £2000 (seal 22/pandora), up to £20,000 (Parker 235) if you fancy.

Tim

 

[Avocet]

We had an Evolution 22 years ago. Might suit you well, depending on the sea area you intend to sail. They're pretty quick (a bit of a handful in a strong wind, in fact) and remarkably roomy below (no headroom though). Lifting the keel is only about 30 seconds work at the most - less if you're rapidly approaching a beach! Don't overlook the disadvantages though. If you intend to keep it on a mooring, antifouling a lift-keeler is a pig of a job, as they sit flat on their bottoms. Also, get in a good stock of log impellers - you're bound to forget to lift it out when drying out one day! The Evolutions sit on their trailers in a partial mould of their own bottoms, so don't think you'l lbe able to antifoul it on the trailer either!

In my opinion, the worst thing about them was the rudder. It's a vertically moving spade and can ctach the ground before the keel. They're also quite fragile, as are the transom mountings for them.

We used to sail in Morecambe bay. You never get big waves, but they're very steep, so the boat pitches a lot and lifts even a long shaft outboard clear of the water sometimes. Also, being quite a light, beamy boat, they just "stop" whenever they hit a wave! On flat water (like Windermere) it was pretty exhilerating though!

Finally (and it could just have been our trailer) they're not very nice to tow. Ours used to snake quite a bit. Recovering isn't that easy either as they don't have any positive location on the trailer, the curve of the bottom being quite gentle.

 

[William_H]

Trailer Sailer

OP says he wants to get back to sailing so forget a McGreggor 26. They are a power boat with some pretensions to sail down wind. Very comfortable accommodation but bad sailers.

Re keels you get compromise. A swing keel will not be damaged if you run aground. However a swing keel must be housed either in a stub keel which extends the min draft and makes it injclined to fall over if drying out. The other option is the keel extending above the floor which inevitably divides the best part of the cabin and gets in the way.
Mine is vertically lifting ballasted keel. It means there is keel area from under the mast back about 60cms floor to roof which makes access to the front cabin not so easy. However the bottom is very flat with keel up just like a dinghy and the keel itself is very hydrodynamically efficient so it sailes well. It can be winched onto a trailer from very shallow water. If anchored stern to the beach you can do no more than get water up to your ankles before climbing on board.
In Australia all TS must be proven self righting with keel up. I don't know about UK/ Europe but in mine this achieved by under floor ballast.
The amount of ballast dictates sea keeping ability and to a degree stiffness but of course a heavy boat means more difficulty launching retrieving and towing.
Ultimately it is all a matter of what you can find to buy. I would recommend my Castle 650 but of course they are not in UK. I have had it for 30 years with no thought of selling it.
Just going out now to put A/F paint on it before launching for a new season. can't wait.
It takes about 30 mins or so to launch and rig. good luck olewill

 

[Lakesailor]

Small cabin is important, but cockpit space is vital to have room for the 5 of us - and we all like to take friends ocasionally on the boat!

Wow. That'll be a bit of a squeeze when sailing. Most small yachts seem to try to make the most of accommodation and don't leave a lot of cockpit space.

 

[aquaplane]

When you find what you want let me know.

You want my Centaur for accommodation and my Copland Harrier for the performance and to be able to trail sail. Both can get into shallow water and dry out. If you can find it in one boat for >£10,000 I'm very interested.

Edit,
Etap 22i, 23i
Jaguar 21, 22, 24,
Seal 22,
Parker 235
First 22, 24

Just a few more options.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

If getting close to the beach is a criterion have you thought about a small multi?

 

[CREEKIE]

DIY is the way to go

Just add sails-
An 81-year-old man had to be rescued when he was blown out to sea in his small inflatable dinghy whilst attempting to rescue his wheelie bin.

Bert Forkings called 999 on his mobile after trying to tow the bin, which had been dragged out by one of the highest tides this year, back to shore.

Bert told the Metro, "The bin had just started to float off and it was going out to sea. The wind was coming up a bit and it was against the tide so I decided to sit down and wait for the lifeboat to arrive."

When the volunteer lifeboat crew arrived on scene they found Bert, who was not wearing a lifejacket or waterproof clothing, very cold and wet sitting in a boat that was half full of sea water.

They helped him back to dry land and kept him warm while they went out again to grab the bin.

RNLI spokesman Dave Massey said, "The volunteer lifeboat crews at Moelfre have dealt with a wide variety of emergency calls over the years but I am sure that this is the first time we have been involved in towing in a wheelie bin."