the pain of boat insurance

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sawmiillsteve

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Hi!
I have a Westerly Giffon. My pride and joy, or I say it was. November having moved it to the top of portsmouth harbour, (Fareham Creek). I thought having it on a mooring at hardway and putting it ashore in the past, I would save money by putting it on a safe mooring far from the coast , with swans swimming by and the silence fareham creek gives you.
I was insured by an insurance company that should stay nameless. Having my Griffon on the mooring for less than 2 weeks, it sank! It was lifted and towed to gosport boatyard, and assessd by a Mr Ed Sawyer. time went by for what Ed, gosport boatyard, and myself thought should have been a straight forward write off.
I had a survey in 2013 and the report was written up as strengthening both keels. But with agreement with the surveyor only one side actually needed to be done, and one to observed. the survey was written and final summary and recomendations were for one keel to be relaminated/ strengthened, before the boat was launched.
Well with the boat now having to be moved from gosport boatyard before christmas I am struggling with the insurace company that take days to look at an email that has been noted to have been delivered. It has 4 holes drilled in it. Not insured, and no payout because the insurance company are looking at the itial section on keels write up, but not the summary/recomendations, which I believe come after the itial report?
The original, and appointed insurance surveyor and myself believe that the summory should be taken into account.
The sinking wasnt due to weak keels, it was due to underwater obstruction, as informed by a knowledgeable local brokerage company. "It was said that they put all manor of things when they built the houses up there".
I have independent views of the damage and with the marks on the keel it does look like something has spread the keels when the boat landed.
My question is, How do companies get away with taking our premiums and choose to try and wriggle out of paying?
 
Get yourself a Chartered Loss Assessor, they are worth every penny of their commission, just having a Loss Assessor contact the Insurance Company will wake them up.
 
Thank you for the advice. How much do they generally cost? I am seeing a solicitor on Wednesday, to seek advice on the surveyors report.
 
sawmillsteve: if I read your post correctly, your insurer hasn't declined your claim but is simply (if frustratingly) dragging its feet. Is that the case?

Presumably your original cover was on the basis of your making good as per the recommendations in the survey; you are argueing that the relevant recommendations are as per the summary of the survey which are slightly different. Is it just your assumption that this is the case? If so, you can scarcely contest their interpretation if they haven't communicated it to you.

I've no experience of loss assessors, as suggested by Jim@sea. But most other avenues open to you, such as a referral to the insurance ombudsman, cannot be pursued until your insurer has actually told you your claim is rejected.

You've written that e-mails to your insurer are answered slowly, if at all. Have you tried phoning them? And, incidentally, how long is it since you made the claim?
 
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The insurance company is Haven Knox Johnson. There you go its out there!
I can't believe their lapse way of
Handling of my subsequent requests for answer, seeing that bills are rising by the week.
 
The company have sent me, both email, and letter. They have stated that I was negligent. I am simple saying to them that they had excepted my surveyors report in all its entirety. Thus excepting the final summary of the report.
 
Sorry Mac.
Yes u do phone them, they remind me all calls are recorded. They say they will take what I sat into consideration. The last time u phones, (last Thursday, they would look at it Friday, or Monday). Monday is the day I may be charged for another month.
The boat went to the new mooring on the 17th October.
 
Two things occur to me;

sinking in what sounds like calm conditions may not necessarily result in a write-off.

Also, I'm not sure what happened here but a lot of insurers are very reluctant to cover boats on swinging moorings over winter.

We all need more info before any useful advice can be given, but I do wish you luck.
 
I feel for you, particularly as Fareham creek is so sheltered-I had my boat on the sailing club moorings for some years. However the Ins Co do have grounds for giving this claim some thought. The fact is that the keels have spread, a known Westerly twin keel weakness. Was it on a dying mooring before you moved? An interesting question whether they agreed on the initial survey recommendations or agreed to the later amended version.
I hope you get it sorted ok-you clearly feel you adhered to the survey final recommendations but the Ins Co may wish to interpret the initial recommendations as fulfilling their requirements. It actually sounds as if the surveyor got this wrong and if the insurance does not pay out that you should get redress from the surveyor.
 
sawmillsteve,

I have been with Haven for years, since they absorbed St Margarets; I have never had to make a claim from them - touchwood - but they seem a decent outfit, on the odd occasion I've had to keep my boat on a swinging mooring into November they have been fine about it, as I kept them informed.

That's a big question, they don't like boats on swinging moorings from November onwards, did you inform or ask them ?

From the little info here I don't think your boat is a write off, but will certainly require lots of work; if you are able to do it yourself it might not even cost a huge amount.

If the mooring you were given had junk for the boat to settle on, surely you can seek redress from the mooring suppliers ?
 
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Seajet said:
Two things occur to me;

sinking in what sounds like calm conditions may not necessarily result in a write-off.

Also, I'm not sure what happened here but a lot of insurers are very reluctant to cover boats on swinging moorings over winter.

We all need more info before any useful advice can be given, but I do wish you luck.
Click to expand...
 
Seajet said:
Two things occur to me;

sinking in what sounds like calm conditions may not necessarily result in a write-off.

Also, I'm not sure what happened here but a lot of insurers are very reluctant to cover boats on swinging moorings over winter.

We all need more info before any useful advice can be given, but I do wish you luck.
Click to expand...

Hi Seajet.
I don't know if I can post pictures?
But when I dug the mooring in where I put it I dug into a wooden boat. I cracked through that, and knowing a boat never sits on the area the mooring is situated. It must have been another obstruction.
Fareham borough council may have known of what lay below before offering the pitch where the mooring lay, as I took it over from someone else. But under the conditions if take ng the pitch. There are no come backs, unless duty of care comes into it.
 
Seajet said:
sawmillsteve,

I have been with Haven for years, since they absorbed St Margarets; I have never had to make a claim from them - touchwood - but they seem a decent outfit, on the odd occasion I've had to keep my boat on a swinging mooring into November they have been fine about it, as I kept them informed.

That's a big question, they don't like boats on swinging moorings from November onwards, did you inform or ask them ?

From the little info here I don't think your boat is a write off, but will certainly require lots of work; if you are able to do it yourself it might not even cost a huge amount.

If the mooring you were given had junk for the boat to settle on, surely you can seek redress from the mooring suppliers ?
Click to expand...
Buy it back from the underwriters for a nominal sum & fix it up, with an agreed pay out
 
sawmiillsteve said:
Thank you for the advice. How much do they generally cost? I am seeing a solicitor on Wednesday, to seek advice on the surveyors report.
Click to expand...

Not sure a solicitor will help at this stage. You need to get in writing from HKJ a response to your claim, so that you know exactly the grounds for rejecting it. Then get your surveyor, or another one who specialises in dealing with insurance companies to fight your case for you. Insurances companies (all of them, not just HLJ) will seek to minimise claims if they see an opportunity particularly if the claim exceeds the insured value, but they can still make mistakes by not taking into account all the information. So you need to establish exactly how you counter their arguments and this is better done by somebody who knows the procedure.
 
sawmiillsteve said:
Hi Seajet.
I don't know if I can post pictures?
But when I dug the mooring in where I put it I dug into a wooden boat. I cracked through that, and knowing a boat never sits on the area the mooring is situated. It must have been another obstruction.
Fareham borough council may have known of what lay below before offering the pitch where the mooring lay, as I took it over from someone else. But under the conditions if take ng the pitch. There are no come backs, unless duty of care comes into it.
Click to expand...

Hi Steve,

there are 2 ways to post photo's on here; either put the pic on somewhere like Photobucket and link to it ( which I find hassle and I'm a pro photographer ) or click on the toolbar here when posting and ' insert image ' is an easier option, it lets you select direct from your computer file.

Anyway I find it troubling on several counts you were given this mooring; didn't they know what was there and the conditions ?

Also, as you ' dug through a wooden boat ' that may have been priceless archaeology !

And I have to say a bit of a warning sign to you.

Boats often sit on the mooring sinker on drying moorings, usually in light wind over tide conditions; I have known 2 boats sunk that way by settling on the concrete disc and /or the big steel eye protruding from it.

Since you laid the mooring yourself - a pretty rare thing these days - the insurance may indeed be sticky, but I think if you can produce copies of letters telling you where to lay it you may well have a claim against the suppliers.

When all is done, I think your boat will prove far from a write-off, treat it as an opportunity to upgrade electrics and even any internal layout issues which may have bothered you.

Not so long ago many grp boats were built from hull & deck kits, including mine which I'm still delighted with 37 years later.
 
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