The Nanny State

Sea Devil

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THE NANNY STATE.

Of course there is an element of risk going sailing – tiny round the bouys on a sunny afternoon – Greater in a gale close inshore. Sailing has since time immemorial had risks associated with it.

Today a shout on the radio, because you have a problem, will bring the RNLI to your side FREE OF CHARGE in a blink. _ In Spain, for example the coast guard will dispatch a commercial Tug for which you will have to pay – So you only call a tug if you are in a life threatening situation. The UK is unique I think in never requiring payment even for the most trivial of ‘shouts’. Has this created a nation of amateur sailors who are mainly not self sufficient?


OFCOM issues both VHF and SSB operators licences after you have completed a very expensive and in the case of the HF licence, mostly irrelevant course, only conducted by a very few radio schools, for fees that make the buying of the set look cheap!

Anyone prepared to spend the money buying a set is probably going to find instruction on how to use it I think.

The requirement for all these courses is based on safety – but why? We all operate our boats without licence and when we begin we either learn by experience – get so scared we never sail again – learn from more experience people or take as much of the various NON OBLIGITORY courses run mainly by the RYA as we think useful.

Can live with OFCom needing to raise funds to run its operations by requiring an annual licence for the sets.. Somebody has to do the incredibly boring job of allocating radio wavelengths et al - But why do they have to invent obligatory courses, costing huge amounts of money to operate a piece of equipment no more complex that a mobile phone?


Of course there have to be rules and some punishments if you don’t obey them but that goes with sailing – if you don’t know who gives way to whom or what the speed limit in a port area is then you will get fined or a dirty great insurance claim – rightly so.

Any body agree?


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Talbot

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Absolutely agree, particularly about the SSB Course. I have muttered on this forum about the futility of the existing course, and lack of correspondence/local education authority type courses rather than pay more for the course than I paid for the SSB.

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bigmart

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I'm not sure I would agree that a modern DSC VHF is as simple as a Mobile phone. Trying to make an individual DSC call is more like programming a Video, with the added joy of bouncing around, while you try to press the right keys with your glasses covered in water & greasy finger prints to assist you in reading the manual.

Otherwise its simple!

Martin

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AlexL

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Apart from the fact that DSC is a complete and utter waste of time and money, its bloody simple to make a DSC call- I'm not sure why I need a course to tell me something which is in the manual of the set, and in the RYA VHF booklet.

The answer to using the radio, as well as everything else is RTFM (Read the Manual)



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bigmart

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You must sail with more intelligent people than I.

Having seen a commitee of 5 or 6 Yachtmaster Offshores, who have passed the DSC upgrade course within the last year, grouped around DSC trying to workout how the send & then respond to an individual call, I am now taking a pet 7 year old with me, whenever I sail, to operate the radio. Under my qualified supervision of course.

I have just spotted the flaw in your response of course. "I am a real man & therfore have no requirement of operating Manuals"

Whats your excuse.

Martin

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Evadne

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I've also seen a ship full of electronic engineers abysmally fail to reply to a mobile text message from one of their teenage offspring. It's not always the technology that's at fault, sometimes the most experienced mariners need a little upgrade.

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trouville

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whats all the fuss about, In France you can SSB with ease though you have to be a French National normaly---When i bought a French boat the admin thought i was !!!! I did the test to take over the SSB and hay presto im a legal user!!! Unfotunatly we have to us e"amature bands" from time to time and they are really bad full or jammers whisslers and inseent repetetive givig of calls lets liberat the Marine bands for sail now the commercial marine dont use it as much
Oh one other thing if you use SSB for a telephone call its expensive!

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Sea Devil

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OK I am now a French resident - what was the SSB test about - where did you do it? Is your boat brit or french registered now?
regards
Michael

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trouville

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I bought a French registerd Grand Banks,I wanted to keep the SSB for the offshore telephoneand communications, well it was "arranged" No problem.
Later i Wanted to sell and the powers to be were not very pleased that the ship had become British--In which case i could still call via SSB but not use the telephone.With my next sail another sailboat they let me keep my SSB but the other services not!!

In France it still depends on your level of intigration and understanding In fact for SSB you simply need to pass a very simple test takes about 5minites, and costs ffrf100 (£10)
and normaly the shop you bought your SSB will verify its for marine use.

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petery

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I took the HF/SSB/Sattelite/GMDSS course and most of the other attendees were professional seamen who needed the ticket from the MCA to get their relevant sea-going certificates as junior officers.

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Talbot

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Its my impression that most of the SSB fitted boats dont actually have a valid Long range certificate to back them up. Certainly the radio ham novice seems to be more relevant to the way that cruisers use their radio.

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milltech

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Re: Associated subject, maybe boaty

I was interested to hear Anne Widdicombe expressing a Conservative policy that they would introduce the concept of "Acceptable Risk" to legally remove the possibility of suing for compensation in some cases.

Specifically she mentioned swimming baths, and back stroke swimmers bashing their heads on the end of the pool but she made it clear there were others.

It seems a great idea to me, learning to ride has become almost impossible as schools shut down through lack of insurance or an inability to fund the premiums. Life is dangerous and some pursuits should be regarded as having a risk attached before you start.

Comment?

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Sea Devil

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Re: Associated subject, maybe boaty

As a card carrying member of the labour party I think Anne Widdicombe has a very good idea... There are risks associated with sailing - riding - mountain climbing - swimming and hundreds more - I think I would like to sign up for Miss Widdicombe's idea - There should be a way of doing this or one day someones (amateur) crew/guest will sue the skipper owner for ........?

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KevB

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Re: Associated subject, maybe boaty

At last, common sense from a politician........

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Re: Associated subject, maybe boaty

It's no good. I keep trying to visualise the phrases "common sense" and "Anne Widdicombe" being used in the same sentence but I can't get it to work. /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif

However, if I force myself, I can just about mouth the words "a member of the Conservative Party has had what seems to be a good idea". /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

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jamesjermain

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I\'m puzzled...

The concensus view of this board is that users of VHF are incompetent, don't know the rules, misuse Channel 16 etc.

The concensus would also seem to be that instruction in the use of VHF is a waste of time, an invasion of our civil liberties and a breach of our Human Rights. We should all learn by experience.

Can someone explain how these two views are compatible? I only ask because I would like to know.

Also I have attended pre-race briefings at which holders of licences to operate SSB clearly had no understanding of the basic operating procedures, the use of channels and the significance of certain important frequencies.

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Ships_Cat

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Re: I\'m puzzled...

I don't think Bambola is puzzled, but just confused or a slow learner when it comes to radio. Seems to have a hankering for 2182 MHz for some reason and claims to operate illegally eg as in "...as she worked out my ham call sign Cyprus ID was a phony..." (Livaboard Link forum) and promoting the use of amateur transceivers in the maritime service.

Is a waste of time trying to explain anything to do with radio to him, so it is quite clear why he has a difficulty over the qualification requirements. His posts are amusingly naive when it comes to radio.

John

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Sea Devil

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Re: I\'m puzzled...

In your 'honest opinion' dear cat o nine tails... I can have an opinion without it being personal...

In my opinion anyone who spends quite large sums of money buying a VHF or an SSB is probably going to find out how to operate it. By reading it up or choosing to take a course - bit like learning to sail - a matter of choice.

People should NOT be held to ransome to purchase very, very expensive SSB courses or less expensive, but possibly more approiate VHF courses, unless they feel they need/want them.
(If you want to join the Ham fraternity that is altogether different and possibly very worth while.)

In this world there will always be people around who are inconsiderate - stupid - sub normal - that's the way it is. If their behavour impinges on the safety of others then there are normally laws to take care of that but the problem with all crime is catching the offenders - that problem does not go away by inventing even more laws and regulations....

I find most people I meet - particulaly sailing - to be interesting, considerate, helpful and friendly - There will always be a very few 'problem people'.

May I ask if you have ever been off shore for more than a few weeks operating regulaly operaiing an SSB? Not in an office - off shore in a yacht?


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