The Master Plan – Next Step?

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tmh900

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Objective: to get SWMBO and kids to approve a boat purchase and enjoy years of family yachting. Budget: as a guide, Bav 36, early this century is affordable, but would involve some financial sacrifices (e.g. all holidays would be on the boat).

This is the plan to get there...

Stage 1 - weekend charter, Solent, Bav 36. October 2007. No wind. SWMBo's view: boat OK, but small kitchen, small bog, small bedroom. Oh and STRESS (see stage 2).

Stage 2 - Week charter in Cornwall. 33 foot 1980's boat. August 2008. Too little wind or too much. Rained and bloody cold. SWMBo's view: Boat minging and even smaller than the Bav. It was very stressful at times because the net competent crew count is:
  • me: (RYA to Coastal Skipper) 1.0,
  • SWMBO: novice and can't really be @rsed so 0.2,
  • kids (age 8 and 10): too young to help and takes effort to stop them bouncing around the cockpit - so -0.1 each.
So basically I'm single handing - which made things very stressful (esp. berthing). High point was a night on the Helford river and dinner in the Shipwright Arms and a lovely run back to Falmouth next day on headsail only.

Stage 3 - get kids into dingy sailing - 8 yr old son just done RYA L1 – he loves it. 10 yr old daughter chose horse riding instead (I ask you, chose a beast over a boat!?). Oh, and I got my level 2 dinghy cert as well (must admit I quite enjoy it).

Stage 4 - this summer holiday (Sep), Sunsail beach club Greece, get all into dinghy sailing and maybe a day on the 30’ day sailers.

Stage 5 - What would the panel advise that I try next?...

P.S. Own boat in sunny climes is not an option (travel time, carbon footprint).
 
Agree. September charter in the Ionian on a 36+. Might be a bit of a problem with school hols so alternative is May or October half term. Trouble is they will probably love it so much that the thought of sailing in good old UK goes out of the window. Actually chartering or even owning a charrter boat in the Med can be cheaper and better value than owning a similar boat in the UK.
 
Join forces with another family, their kids friends with yours, and charter in Greece/Turkey.
Means you have two "sailors" so boat handling, navigation etc much easier, kids can riot together, and the two SWMBOs can keep each other company even when not sailing. Then in a couple of years time the kids will be big enough to really help sail and you can move on to each running a boat.
 
tmh900 said:
but would involve some financial sacrifices (e.g. all holidays would be on the boat).
Click to expand...

Big, expensive mistake.
It will cost you a house.


You must compromise, eg at least as many lastminute.com weeks as saily weeks. With my wife she is increasingly suggesting more boating per year, but we always have another holiday - this year a week in Grenada and a week in Greece. As bizarre as it sounds, that way you will spend more time on the boat.
 
Oh and as far as tactics are concerned, point out that if you own the boat and the forecast is poo, you can grab a lastminute deal. If you've chartered a boat you can't, you have to grin and bear the rain.

You probably will never trust the forecast enough to actually do this, but is nonetheless a selling point pre purchase.
 
Similar to my experiences though I got as far as buying the boat. SWMBO was never convinced of the merits of sailing so I downsized and sail mostly single-handed, though she will meet up and stay aboard if I "promise the mast won't clang all night!"
 
Give up the idea of a big boat... everything you've said indoicates that your wife is exactly the same as mine .. lovely but finds sailing "boring" (she actually said it to me!) and doesn't like it when the boat tips over (heels).. all my sailign isnow done mostly with my two little'uns and we havea great time... my advice?? Buy a smaller boat for you and the kids that you can sail single handed when you have to, and put the balance towards family holidays on land... :D
 
sounds like you're on to a looser to start with!!

Bav 36 isn't a small boat by many standards - but there are two internal layouts that will hugely influence you ...

I'd guess you chartered the 3 cabin layout - these are quite common and generally used for charter boats as you can get more ppl onboard..

We have the 2 cabin Bav37 (same hull) - and the heads are HUGE - two of us were in them the other weekend to fix the water pump - and space was not an issue. The foreward cabin is spacious and the aft cabin is quite good too (although less standingroom). The disadvantage of the 2cabin is that once you've got 4 ppl onboard any more have to be in the saloon.
Our galley is a wrap around one - no it isn't huge, but you don't want a huge galley - just adequate space to cook a simple meal and enough fridge room for the wine/beer!!

The kids at 8 & 10 need to start getting involved in the sailing - as you said, get them involved in sailing dinghies so they can have complete control is a good start. But you can also let them loose on a big boat (under supervision!!) - the thing is you need to make it fun for them - go to destinations that are tricky/impossible by road - good beaches (EastHead down the east end of the solent is one) are great for kids - and once the kids start enjoying it they'll be less of a pain to SWMBO who can then relax a bit.

Oh - and to aid relaxation - run the engine more during the difficult bits, keep the legs short (and fridge cold) - and don't be afraid to stay inport when the rain comes in - you can get some bikes onboard to venture further afield if it isn't too bad.
Oh - and space wise - get a cockpit tent - wow .. what a difference to space, especially when wet - you get another room!!

Problem is, if you do a med charter SWMBO will only settle for clear blue skys and warm clear water ... so you'll be stuck either chartering or buying something out there !!
 
I have a similar strategy. My wife does not want to entertain sailing but will approach the boat and clean, polish, repair. I try not to pressure her at all but I do know the secret is through the kids.

My two boys are 9 and 13 and they are becoming slowly but surely hooked. Always increase the responsibility whilst at the same time stay out longer on the boat. When we get home I'm sensing a change in attitude as she wants to be near the kids. "what was it like?" "didn't you get sick?" "where do you sit to relax?" "what did you see?". All these questions will lead to her 'giving a go' under my terms. I'll teach her the basic safety lines and stick to the Thames estuary so it's not too rough and then we'll take it from there.

Slowly, slowly is the best approach so long as you do other "family things" to compensate.
 
If you push her to much(swmbo), then the boat will become a nonexistant entity, and a discontented marraige, if she is very against it, you have two roads to choose from,
1. Never own a boat but charter one every now and again, and buy a dinghy to keep the boys happy with their new hobby.
2. With the girl being horsey the wife will air on her side and the boat, if you buy one will be a hate relationship with the wife and daughter. Which could end in disaster and you living in a bedsit/happy sailor on boat..

I am very lucky, my wife although get seasick, every now and again, sees the boat as her stressless home by the sea, so win win for me, i had even decided to sell one year and nearly got lynched by the whole family.(apart from the fashion concious daughter,who though it was the best idea i had ever had)..
 
Masterplan next step

Looks like you missed the stage where SWMBO also does a dinghy sailing course;there's no better method of teaching boat handling and building confidence in a yacht . Many owners consign their wives to rope tying and fender hanging to the extent that it seems more work than sailing pleasure. Try the opposite where she is in charge of the boat,and brings it alongside... then SWMBO will do the shouting!!
Suggest the Competent crew course and Day Skipper theory for her and Practical D.S for you. friends and I found both these courses to be fun and interesting.
With luck you could pair up with another family as suggested earlier.
Purchase of the large boat is a heavy commitment ,unless all are happy with sailing .


ianat182
 
There are no easy answers, all SHMBOs are different, luck plays a huge part in life, you'd be a rare beast if your wife was a Mrs Pardey, Mrs Hiscock, or Mrs Pye.

Does your wife see the boat (a Bavaria?) as a wet, uncomfotable, anonymous and labour-intensive piece of plastic? Would she, if you bought a boat with a different sort of character (a long-keeler, more sea-kindly, maybe a bit more trad in layout although still cramped, perhaps more real wood down below rather than just a few bits of stick on veneer) see it as a personality?

Something captured your imagination about sailing. What was it? Is there something else about sailing that might capture your SHMBO's imagination? Although you can't always engineer it successfully, its worth thinking about. It may be a romantic thing for her or an intellectual challenge? Or perhaps she has her own dreams that have nothing to do with boats?

Other advice already given that I'd second:
* Get her to do the dinghy sailing basic course (or just get her out having fun in the sun in Sept), and perhaps do the Day Skipper theory in the winter?
* Definately make your land-based holiday each year your main holiday which she chooses (so she cannot complain).

In the end, you might find yourself sailing with mates or just you and your son as he grows a little older, but that is a much better outcome than no sailing at all! And if that's the case, then you only need 27-30ft boat that you can short-hand, so cheaper all round than a 37ft AWB.

In this connection, I'd also urge you to join a club - that way your crew and crewing opportunities, as well as moral support, will open up. And you wife will meet plenty of other sailor's wives with whom she has much in common! Some will be long-suffering, but others will be very supportive and encouraging - just stand back and watch the 'sisters' do the persuading for you!

Don't lose sight of your dream, just be prepared for more flexible outcomes.

And remember Von Moltke's famous dictum: 'No plan survives contact with the enemy.'

Babs
 
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Many thanks all for the welcome advice. I think all is not lost on the dream of owning a 'big' boat.

We'll see how it goes with the dinghy sailing in Greece.

I like the idea of chartering with another family - will try that.

I might also approach a sailing school to practice my boat handliong skills to the point where I can single hand - maybe less stress for us all that way.

The thing I can't quite fathom is that SWMBO is quite adventurous in many respects - e.g. we have done much off-road cycling, she will allways try the 'high ropes' and loves white knucle rides...but does not seem to get sailing at all. She hates camping so I guess it is just a creature comforts thing (hence why I think a smaller boat is out).

P.S. the Bav 36 was just a guide to size/budget. If authorised by the domestic investment committee, I'd probably go for a slightly older Bene First.
 
Some good suggestions in here.

"Dream of owning a big boat" = winter weekends spent doing mainenance + spending lots of money + spending even more money + that rare 1-2 days that everything works and everybody is happy!

By the sounds of it, I would do the charter option; try some folotilla holidays as well and the odd beach based holidays (spa for the missus, dinghys for you and the kids!) I would suggest your money would go much farther and the enjoyment will be much more.

By doing the above you can build up your experience and see what boats and types of sailing work for you. If you all start to enjoy it and want to do a lot if it, you can then think about buying. (Try the BVIs over x-mas/new year)

Owning a boat is a big commitment, both in terms of money and time. Unless you are going to use one on a very regular basis, i would charter (give flexability in types of boast and locations) And when you compare it to the cost of ownership of a boat...!

(PS Luxury on a yacht! I have been on yachts that have more room, better equipment and are far more luxurious than our house! All depends on how deep your pockets are.)
 
How about a partner swap...? ;) I've got one I would like to swap and he would love your SWMBO, and you and I sound ideally matched with the added advantage that you won't have to buy a boat yourself! You'd need to like the "more mature" type though (woman not boat) :eek:
 
The danger with your situation is that you buy a boat with a big interior in a fruitless attempt to interest SWMBO and end up with a boat that sails poorly and doesnt grab you after the first enthusiasm. Plus you are riding for a fall sacrificing all holidays for something only you enjoy.

Best setle for an older 25 footer that you can single hand / take the kids when they are civilised, and still have hols en famille with swmbo.

Incidentally, dont expect a cruiser to appeal to dinghy sailing kids. It likley wont be anything like fast enough or exciting enough. Thats what I found anyway.
 
Some brilliant advice here

Sorry, I can't add any!
I'm in a similar position, although my campaign plan is a lot less advanced than yours.
I've only really started dinghy sailing myself, but at least the daughters are both really keen to join me - it's just that I won't take them out until they can swim properly, the eldest is 90% there but the youngest has a long way to go.
SWMBO is pretty much against the idea of buying a yacht, but hopefully she will mellow if I take things gently.
One things for certain, I'm going to need somewhere to hide before the girls hit their teens!!
 
"SWMBO is quite adventurous, but finds sailing boring."
suggest:
1 Buy her a jetski
2 Buy yourself and kids a sporty dayboat (Hawk 20?, French equivalents?)
3 Make sure the two craft are launched at least 20 miles apart
4 Harmony!

Seriously, makes me realise how lucky we are! Our route was a bit different. We built a lot of family enthusiam/solidarity by taking a gaff dayboat, then a small wooden cruiser, to 'classic' events like YOGAFF, Festival of the Sea, Burlsedon regatta weekends. Lots of fun, lots of people, sense of occasion. Great memories too.

C
 
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