The incredible story of a folding boat

sighmoon

sighmoon

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At the last London boat show, we ordered a folding boat. It finally arrived about 3 months late, but was incomplete (missing sailing gear, oars, and the bouyancy bag fenders) and broken.

I called him up about it and he said he'd make him another one, and everytime we chased him up, this new boat was 'coming on nicely', and 'would be ready soon'. 2 months later, he wrote to us saying he'd be unable to start our replacement boat until October.

So we called him up and he agreed to give us a refund. He'd post the cheque out right away. He didn't. I called him and he'd post it out in the next couple of weeks.

Then I got a letter from him saying before he could give us a refund, I should (at my expense) ship the boat to him, and he'd sell it on our behalf, and give us the money. I called him to clarify how he would get as much for a damaged, second hand and incomplete boat as we paid for the new one. He said he wouldn't advertise it as a second hand boat...

So I wrote to the credit company I paid for it with, and finaly, they've written to him. But, it turns out, the credit card company are completely toothless. They can only write to him and ask him to respond - he's free to ignore thir letters, or deny it all, and they'll take his word for it.

So what now?

We're thinking of the small claims court, but do they have any power? If he doesn't turn up, or if he turns up and says we must have damaged the boat, and he originaly sent all the missing bits, what then?

Would naming the company here prejudice any legal proceedings?
 
I would suggest Citizen's Advice Bureau then small claims court. The SCC is far from toothless and if he doesn't turn up it can issue a judgement against him (he will probably be given at least two chances to attend). In his correspondence he seems to have effectively admitted liability. I don't think naming him would affect a civil case.

I'm sure our resident lawyers will give you a more reliable reply
 
Horrible story. I don't think the credit card company are toothless, though. You need to explore their complaints procedure or talk to your CAB.
 
As far as I understand the Consumer Creedit Act, if you paid him by credit card then your credit card company is responsible and must re-imburse you for the full purchase price once you have returned the unsatisfactory goods. The company is then responsible for for recovering its loss from the supplier.
I've only had to use this once and it worked without a hitch.
Good luck
 
off to the small claims court http://www.small-claims.co.uk/small_claims_court.htm

DONT use an agent - you don't need one.

you write up your side of the story, it's all easy stuff.

I won a case on a cooker/range in the SCC - the other side turned up with a specialist and a solicitor, we all sat in front of the judge - I gave him the facts and I was awarded a full refund (over £3,000) plus the other side had to pay me interest worked out by the judge on his calculator at the time, I couldn't believe it..
The judge is no fool, and will not suffer any nonsense.

Get onto your local court court and fill in the forms, it's the only way you'll get your money back.

cheers

Ian
 
I think the problem with the credit card company is that there is a time limit for them to reclaim the cash from the trader, and therefore for the consumer to claim it back from them. As you say however they are far from toothless, because they have the ultimate sanction of denying a rogue trader the ability to use the system.
By the way I think that anyone who was at LIBS last year can probably guess which company this was. It might be best to name the rogue, just in case some of us are thinking of the wrong trader.
 
The credit card company are liable (They reimbersed me in full last year when a well known PC manufacturer went out of business) but I think they are only liable if you haven't paid them for it (i.e., until you pay tem they are the legal owners of the property and if you defaulted they would have a right to the property). I think the problem here is that a lot of time has elapsed so unless you had been working with them throughout and making them aware they should not pay this supplier the money will have been transacted and you are the legal owner of whatever bit of boat you currently have!

I'm no expert on this but I suspect if you named and shamed there would and could be no legal recourse from him unless he coul prove your claims were unfounded. It would be good to get a view from an expert on this. He certainly sounds deserving of naming and shaming and it will really wrankle if you see him at the next boat show telling us all what a wonderful service his company provides!
 
Thanks all.

I would love to name and shame. It's Seahopper. Spread the word!

Apparently, he's been thrown out of the British Marine Industry Federation because of a large number of poorly handled complaints. I'm not alone.

It's a real shame; the boat itself looked nifty at the show.
 
IIRC the real benefit of the Small Claims Court process is that is discourages either party using legal advice because even if you lose, there is no award of costs other than small amounts for any court fees and perhaps the winner's travel expenses.

So the other side cannot bully you into backing down by having, or pretending to have, expensive solicitors and threatening that you'd have to pay their costs if you don't win.

A friend of mine just used the SSC to get back a deposit on a house he rented and found the hearing to be very fair and well designed around lay people with no experience of the law. He left the court with a check for the full amount.
 
I agree that the small claims court is a good route but getting judgement in your favour is only the start. Getting it enforced is a whole other ball game. I'm still owed £800 by a local scumball that sold one of my bikes and didn't give me the money.

All he has to do is claim to be bankrupt and broke and that's that. My hands are tied.

If I weren't in such a vulnerable job I'd just get some people I know to enforce the dept, but he knows he's got me over a barrel.
 
[ QUOTE ]
We're thinking of the small claims court, but do they have any power?

[/ QUOTE ]

It may not need to get that far. I had a customer who wouldn't pay [nothing wrong with my service - he was just the kind of person who didn't pay anybody's bills without a fight], so I wrote to the Small Claims Court saying I wished to use the court and how should I go about it. I copied my letter to the debtor and his cheque arrived before the SCC's reply.
 
In addition to court fees, the court will award the winner travel costs and loss of earnings.

If the loser fails to pay up they get a CCJ recorded against them which can make it hard to get credit. Conversely. if they don't care about CCJs you're stuffed.
 
I'll see how it goes. My guess is that if it gets found in my favour, he'll promise to pay me and then won't. Can the court not 'disdrain upon his goods and chatels' if he doesn't pay up?
 
Not in my experience they can't. I took the manufacturer of a self steering system to the SCC some years ago; he never showed up to defend himself and judgement was entered against him, but that didn't help me, 'cos the #@$@#@$ didn't give me my money back either!!

Hope you get a better outcome - BTW, we had a seahopper and loved it...
 
Nuts.

I think the original seahopper company split in two with the two partners. The name went to the lower quality of the two, though I've had no dealings with the other.
 
Re: The incredible story of a folding boat FAO Duncan

Hi Duncan,

This is just a thought, and I appreciate your position jobwise, but does the law not permit you to sieze goods of his to the value of what he owes you? As I possibly missunderstand it, you can do this, but you must not tamper, damage or sell his goods, but you can just hang on to them until he coughs up?

Thinking behind this is, if for instance he was trying to sell something to make some money, but you "confiscated" it against the debt he owes you, he wouldn't be able to sell it, and so not earn the money from it? I suppose the trick would be to nab summat he really needs?

Just some thoughts? probably crap, but ..................

Charlie.
 
Re: The incredible story of a folding boat FAO Duncan

You can take something - but only if you do not intend to permanently deprive the owner of it.

I discovered my dinghy trailer missing (a combi base) and after discussing with a magistrate I would be operating within the law if I found the trailer with someone elses boat on it and towed the whole lot away - so long as I informed the owner of the boat what I had done and what he'd have to do to recover his boat. - legal blackmail!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Re: The incredible story of a folding boat FAO Duncan

Well, if Duncan was to do just that, he may have some leverage against this "scumball" to pay him what he owes him.

Duncan would not be intending to permenantly deprive, he would be holding the goods until such time as the debt is paid.
 
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