The failing Greek economy

[vyv_cox]

Just back from a cycle and walk around Chios town. Anyone expecting to see signs of a recession would be somewhat disappointed. The place is bustling, full of people dressed expensively, plenty of new cars about, shops full of trendy kit, much of it being bought. Cafes and bars thronged with customers.

We saw a political demonstration, a procession marching down the main shopping street led by a man with a loud hailer. The standard of chanting was considerably better than 'Maggie, Maggie, Maggie, out, out, out', amongst which we did catch the word 'democracy'. I have to say they were the best dressed, best behaved political protesters I have ever witnessed.

As ever, everyone we have spoken to in Greece is welcoming and friendly. I advise anyone thinking of booking elsewhere due to political problems that they have little to be concerned about.

 

[Tony Cross]

And a big +1 to that from me in Crete too. Lots of tourists here and the locals are as welcoming and friendly as ever.

Actually, apart for the very occasional demonstrations you'd have been hard pressed to know there was a crisis here. Of course, when you look closer you quickly spot the increasing number of shops and small businesses that have closed and when you get out into the hills you can see olive groves that have lain unloved for years suddenly being brought back into production.

And there are many locals who are really suffering, there is a (discrete) soup kitchen in town to feed those who genuinely have nothing. The secretary in the (state-owned and managed) marina is now on the same salary she was on in 2006. Can you imagine anyone in the UK standing for that?

But I agree with Vyv, don't be put off by what you see on the news. These are isolated incidents and mostly only in the large cities. You'll find the holiday resorts and all the cruising destinations as friendly and welcoming as ever.

 

[Laundryman]

Well that's a coincidence because I'm here in Crete at the moment and I can't fault anything. Prices look to be much more affordable than Spain, quality of food, service and hotel excellent. People are without a doubt friendly. No sign of recession here. The sea is more blue than I've ever seen. The only thing missing is my boat. I can well understand why some forumites spend their summers here. I'm impressed. Thanks Alan

 

[MASH]

The people are looking prosperous and spending because they are working for cash wherever they can and so aren't paying any taxes. It isn't the people who are broke, it's the government and the nation's financial system.

Curiously, the two are not entirely unconnected.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Recent article in the Economist noted that Tourism bookings were "buoyant". Since this is the second largest part of the economy after shipping, that sounds promising.

Oh yes, and they've cut the time required to register a ship from 7 months to ten days. A major move to sort out the appalling weight of bureaucracy on business hs been to pass a measure permitting 15,000 ineffective civil servants to be sacked, and replaced by young, qualified, new entrants. It seems too many of the old guard were being rewarded with sinceures for political support, rather than ability.

 

[hoped4]

The people are looking prosperous and spending because they are working for cash wherever they can and so aren't paying any taxes. It isn't the people who are broke, it's the government and the nation's financial system.

Curiously, the two are not entirely unconnected.

Was in the Ionian last week and felt that the number of restaurants that wouldn't take credit cards was probably indicative of the cash economy and the avoidance of tax that has helped create the problems the country now faces. Of course, can't blame people for avoiding banks if they don't think their money is safe.

 

[Melody]

I think the reason they won't take credit cards is more likely to be because they will lose 2.5% or more in commission and things are so tight they can't afford to do that.

 

[vyv_cox]

I think the reason they won't take credit cards is more likely to be because they will lose 2.5% or more in commission and things are so tight they can't afford to do that.

Yes, that was mostly the case before the crash. There is a lot of competition between tavernas, especially in the popular tourist places.

 

[Cspirit]

Just a word of warning re. the cash/credit card thing. We were stopped by the port police in Mourtos last month. Usual presentation of documents but they specifically wanted to see the receipt for our winter storage (in Corfu as it happens). We had paid cash but the yard owner insisted that this was because his machine had broken and gave us (thankfully) a receipt.

 

[Wansworth]

Same here in Spain but not so obvious signs are less heart operations and people dieing,less scientific study into demt entia,overworked doctors.

 

[Cardo]

In-laws live in Corfu and they never use their credit (or debit) cards. It's not because they don't want to, but simply nobody will accept them. Even the big white goods vendors who advertise they they accept credit cards will turn around and say "Oh, the machine is broken." It's a load of tosh, they simply don't want the money going into an account so it's traceable.

Going from living in the UK to living in Corfu was a bit of a shock for them, especially when they built their own house and had to pay for just about everything in cash. Including the land!

 

[vyv_cox]

I'm not sure of the reason that Mourtos is so problematic. It was suggested that it was one particular man who raised so many obscure objections but we have suffered the same from a lady. Our experience was similar to yours, they tried to get us to buy a new DEKPA, even though ours was less than a quarter full, claiming that it might be a forgery! Fortunately we had the original receipt for it stapled inside the back cover. We were also queried about the previous winter's berthing but we had the Preveza receipt to prove our stay in Greece. In a bureaucracy you can never keep too much paperwork!

 

[Blue5]

I think the reason they won't take credit cards is more likely to be because they will lose 2.5% or more in commission and things are so tight they can't afford to do that.

Nothing to do with traceability then !! , having to account for money and possibly pay tax

 

[Cardo]

Our experience was similar to yours, they tried to get us to buy a new DEKPA, even though ours was less than a quarter full, claiming that it might be a forgery!

It does make me wonder if these people have no shame. Do they not realise this kind of behaviour causes the world to laugh at them?

 

[Davy_S]

There has been at least two attempts to make purchasers of goods costing 1000e and 2000e pay by credit card, to make the transaction traceable, it has not worked. I purchased a log burner and it had to be ordered on line, they would not accept my card, I had to go to the bank and pay in cash (iban) the goods were delivered.
When the limit of 1000e was reached in an electrical goods store, you bought the goods over 2 days, paying 500e each day! The law changes daily in Greece, the Islands make their own law! no one trusts a credit card, cash is king and always will be. When the Greeks see how politicians have trousered huge amounts of cash and paid no tax, can you blame them? I don't.

 

[Tony Cross]

The people are looking prosperous and spending because they are working for cash wherever they can and so aren't paying any taxes. It isn't the people who are broke, it's the government and the nation's financial system.

Curiously, the two are not entirely unconnected.

Actually it's not that simple. We have friends who run a health food store, their profits are always small and for the last couple of years they've pretty much non-existent. They were recently ordered to replace their electronic till. It's connected to the tax office system and records all transactions. Their old one was less than 5 years old and in perfect working order but they were given no choice, the till had to be replaced and at their expense. €500 for the cheapest, simplest, but government approved till. Not much chance of making much of a profit this year now either.

 

[sailaboutvic]

everyone we have spoken to in Greece is welcoming and friendly. I advise anyone thinking of booking elsewhere due to political problems that they have little to be concerned about.

You done it now VYV before you know it the place will be packed with holiday tourist .

GUYS , beware , information up date , Greece you can,t buy any food or drinks , restaurant haven't got any food to serve you .
Ice cream totally sold out and there no beer of wine . Go to Spain .

www.bluewatersailor4.webs.com

 

[Davy_S]

The post by Tony Cross reminded me, Last year we were sat in our local Taverna mid afternoon having a couple of beers, we had a powercut just as we were leaving, this was around the time that electronic tills were being forced onto bar owners, we laughed and asked how would the till open or work, she said, no problem, I always leave the drawer open so it does not record!
A week later, she was fined 600 europs for serving a friend with a coffee and meze (for free) without giving a receipt, this was genuine, the tax man sat there was having non of it! beware, they are out to get you.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

The islands and other tourist places are busy as always, but this does not mean that the locals are prosperous. In Athens the situation is not that good at all, people are suffering, crime is up, and houses now worth 1/3 to 1/5 to what they used to worth a few years ago.

However, the Greek economy will bottom late this summer, and will start increasing slightly in 2014 and I hope the house market recovers so that I can sell mine for a reasonable price. The sea coast of Athens is terrific, the sea in Vouliagmeni and Varkiza is great and the sailing is wonderful; the locals are not bad either.

 

[pathfinderstu]

hard from a friend of mine just back from Rhodos, very down at he heel there, town looking unkept, bad attitude in restaurants, not a lot of stuff available from the menu and so on. not looking good there.