The Butt & Oyster

Kristal

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In reference to Mirelle's earlier recollection of the days when mere yachtsmen dare not enter the Butt at Pinn Mill for fear of the bargemen, I have to report that things are (almost) worse than we thought.

Popped along for lunch at the request of a friend, and joy of joys, and most unusually for a Saturday lunchtime, we found a table in the cosy "Smoke Room", a sort of snug they set out for smoking diners. A pint of Broadside before me, I lit up a comforting cigarette.

It wasn't long before my quiet puffing was interrupted by the pointed coughing of a just-pubescent teenager, the audible whispering of her younger sibling ("mummy, they mustn't do that"), and, last of all, a request for us to desist from their parents. I naturally refused, observing that if you will sit and order your lunch in the clearly-labelled "Smoke Room", you can jolly well put up with it. One tries to be a considerate smoker, but in a public house where they specifically nominate an area, it's beyond a joke.

I should like to see them insist on a bar-full of bargies extinguishing their pipes. Not the pub's fault, but just another example of tedious home-counties gentility trying to absorb a quiet country pub into it's safe and spotless innerverse. Damn their eyes.

/<
 

daveyjones

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"tedious home counties gentility", well maybe, but I have impeccable working class credentials, and I hate smokers too! A "considerate smoker" has to be the oxymoron to end all oxymorons. All drug addicts are egotistical and selfish, no matter whether their drug of choice is legal or otherwise.
It's good to know there are some intelligent "pre-pubescent teenagers " around. You should listen to them.
I am all in favour of smoke rooms in pubs, to save the rest of us from your filthy orally-fixated habit,but often the area so designated is marked only by an imaginary line between one table and the next. Where exactly is the smoke room at the Butt and Oyster? I haven't been there for about 6 months and I don't remember one. I rarely go to pubs (because of the smoke) unless I can sit outside - the sooner there is a total ban on smoking the better.

I never thought I'd hear a yachtsman criticising someone else for being middle class though! I thought that was a necessary qualification for going sailing.
 

Mirelle

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It certainly has not got any better; the owners evidently know that they own a gold mine, no matter what they do.

Sorry to hear of Kristal's experience; there was a time when you could hardly see across the main bar, of an evening.

For the record, I don't smoke.

Come back Pat.
 

Santana379

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The Butt only has four things in its favour nowadays - Location, Location, Location and its history. I enjoy the view of when I'm sailing past, but tend to feed and drink at the nearby Schooner at Woolverstone Marina where the fare is good and cmuch better value, and the company is normally good. The views of course are breathtaking, especially at sunset. Trouble is, the beer's so good at the Butt (OK, that's five things), particularly since the last last change of Landlord which is when I think Adnams arrived. Previously it was the only place where Tolly tasted good.

Smoking - if you can't smoke at a pub, where can you smoke (apart from at my Mother's /<ristal)? I no longer smoke, but only mind others smoking if they're actually sitting beside me when I'm eating.
 

ianwright

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One of the few things worse than millitant non-smokers are born again Christians- " So tell me, have you given yourself to the Lord? Hm?"
I generally stub my fag out in their left eye.
And non smoking pubs? Fine,,,,, build one if that's what you want, with bars marked "Smug Gits"and " People like Us".
Otherwise don't go to places that make you uncomfortable.
"Mummy, Mummy. That man is having a tattoo!" Well yes dear, this is a tattoo parlour but I'll get Daddy to tell him to stop before we all get passive hepatitus."

IanW
 

Kristal

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Born-again non-smokers are quite the worst - and if a pub has smoking and non-smoking areas, I'll happily stick to the smokers area. Don't even get me started on militant Christians - as a sort of Christian myself, the only time I lose all sense of moral responsibility is when faced with an evangalistic, usually ill-considered, onslaught.

Sadly, I get more and more disappointed with the Butt every time I go - whilst the cellar is well-kept and the staff mostly pleasant and helpful, the food becomes less authentic and more poncey with every passing year, and the interior is slowly becoming cleaner and less cluttered. I like cluttered pubs. The view is as always spectacular (although there were a number of boats on the hard which failed to right themselves on an exceptionally high tide and filled up with water at the weekend) but I must admit I spent more time looking at the staff - some quite delightful creatures were working there, some wearing flowers in their hair and everything... lovely...

But I'm afraid I'm in love with the ideal of small local pubs which exist for the locals - the Butt & Oyster that Jim Brading would have had breakfast at. As Andrew says, they know they're sitting on a gold mine. Although I never met Pat, I understand he still lives at Pin Mill, so perhaps we should all press-gang him back into service...

And yes, a smoker will never have a finer reception than at FF's mum's house!!

/<
 

Kristal

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Sorry, davey, didn't anwer your question.

The smoke room is a small, snug-type area aross the entrance hall from the main bar area (also quite rightly a designated smoking area), and well away from the large, non-smoking dining room (somewhat more antiseptic than the rest of the C16th pub). It has a door, clearly proclaiming the room's purpose, which can be closed to seal it off (but rarely is).

I fear I too would be decidedly middle-class if I had the income to go with it, but it isn't a matter of class - it's that everywhere families of this nature go, they expect the environment to conform to their 'wholesome' ideals, regardless of it's history, customs or traditions. They are usually shockingly self-righteous (even more so than myself), and are probably the type who are so determinedly healthy-living that their children will grow up without a developed immune system - quite possibly what caused the elder daughter's cough, now I come to think of it...

I wasn't making it a class thing - that would be as sweeping a generalisation as "all drug addicts are egotistical and selfish", which is, of course, utter nonsense. As far as listening to 'intelligent' pre-pubescent teenagers, I'll quite happily listen to them, but not in a Public bloody House. When I was very young, in a large, working class East London family, you wouldn't even have dreamed of going into a pub before you were at least 16, and then, anything approaching that level of impertinence would see you publicly clipped around the ear by your dad, grandad, uncle, landlord, local shove-ha'penny champion, or all of the above.

/<
 

daveyjones

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So if you can also smoke in the main bar, there is no escape for non smokers, who after all are in the majority - it only takes one person smoking a cigarette (don't get me started on pipes and cigars) to ruin it for everyone with a sense of smell. I would quite happily sit next to someone injecting themselves with heroin, because it doesn't affect me at all (I used to have a diabetic girlfriend who injected insulin as a matter of course, sometimes by necessity in public places), rather than breath in someone's smoke. I don't even object on health grounds, I agree with your point about immune systems. I just can't stand the smell, which makes me throw up , especially after a few days at sea!
I still maintain that drug addicts are selfish, as I have known quite a few - they are fine until there is a supply shortage, then the true nature shows.
I also share your opinion of the middle classes, as I spend my working life (as an electrician) pandering to the idle luxury and poor taste of such people (we are all whores). I have intimate experience of them and their precocious children. Again, there used to be children's rooms, as well as smoke rooms, in pubs; I spent many happy hours there as a child, with a bottle of lemonade and a packet of crisps.

Incidentally, the Butt and Oyster is best visited on a mid-week night in winter, when there are few yachts and fewer day trippers (of any social class). I once spent a winter living aboard, anchored off in the river (I couldn't afford a mooring), and it was lovely there in the pub, you could imagine Arthur Ransome himself popping in for a quick one.
 

Kristal

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Arthur Ransome

...as I'm sure he did! Not a lot is said about how he spent his off-time, and I'm sure there are others here who know more, but it certainly used to have the feeling. It is getting a bit sterile now, though... which is truthfully more what I was getting at, rather than the smoking bit...
 

Laverock

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Well said, Davey Jones

I would as soon breath diesel fumes as tobacco smoke. Its foul and well proven to be harmful to the health of non smokers in all kinds of ways. Sit near a smoker for only a short time and the sour smell clings to hair and clothes until they are washed or cleaned. Maybe as smokers always smell like this they don't realise how nasty and intrusive it is. Most of my adult life smokers had it all their own way. If you didn't like it you just had to put up with it. Now the tables are turned. I don't mind if people smoke or not - that's their business (although I do feel sorry for the children in their families) but, please, not around me. The total ban has worked well in Ireland and should be brought in here. If pubs want to provide facilities for smokers, that's fine, but general public areas should be smoke free, for the sake of the majority. Smoking is no more acceptable than chewing tobacco and spitting on the floor - a habit that was very common 100 years ago and would horrify people now. Its a sad addiction and a habit whose time has passed.
 

Kristal

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Re: Well said, Davey Jones

Not the issue. I don't disagree. But if you sit in a room called the "Smoke Room" where ashtrays are provided on the tables, you are likely to get what it says on the tin.

If you want to continue the "smokers are evil" thread, at least post something that we haven't all heard before.

/<

PS: I breathe Diesel fumes all the time. And parafin, turpentine, meths, white spirit... I also usually have antifoul in my hair at this time of year, and the place in which I live has a fine layer of wax and soot all over it. I happen to like it.
 

AJW

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Tolly Cobold I'd presume.

Don't care about the smoking debate (although its a habit I abhor) but will you stop talking about Adnams! Its about the only thing I miss living in Canada........!
 

daveyjones

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Re: Well said, Davey Jones

Actually I wouldn't even go as far as to demand a total ban on smoking in public, although this will eventually happen - there is a pub in Kent which has seen a massive increase in business since they banned it, and when the all the other pubs and restaurants realise what they are missing, they will follow suit. I would favour proper smoking rooms, with a ban in the other areas of the pub. The smoking room should be a proper room witha closed door and strong ventilation to prevent leakage of smells. That way everyone will be happy.
I agree that the Butt has lost some of it's character, but the beer is still good! As I said before, if you avoid weekends you avoid the weekend sailors and the "isn't this charming " types.
 

PeterWillis

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It's one of the ironies of life isn't it. When our children were small pubs had family rooms which were spartan, cheerless places in unattractive parts of the building, rather like the Butt's Smoke Room which I know well, and admire Kristal for banishing hmself to. Now our offspring are of an age, it seems children are allowed anywhere, nearly, and, oddly, have become annoying rather than delightful.
I tend to expect a moderate level of smoke in bars, and although a BANS (ok, born-again non-smoker) I do rather like it. The odd passive sniff is wonderfully evocative (Railway station platforms have become another good source since they banned smoking on trains). I've tried to wean myself onto Stockholm tar as a nostalgia stimulant but it's just not the same.
 

Kristal

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Re: Well said, Davey Jones

Yes, I agree with careful scheduling - generally it's very nice after the kitchen closes, and at 11am - I particularly like a pint at this time of day because it's only the hardcore boozers in the pub then!!

I don't want to get dragged further into the general banning of smoking in pubs debate (maybe too late for that!!), but it stands to reason that a 'massive increase' in business for smoke-free pubs will only occur initially - if they all go the same way, I don't think there will be a tangible difference. I do suspect that pubs that choose smoking over food will find they easily make up for what they might lose in serving overpriced boil-in-a-bag rubbish to punters - although perhaps not eaily, on second thoughts, what with the disgraceful mark-up they attribute these days.

I have often thought about the pub trade as a future vocation, and with redundancy looming, some friends and I might well look for a small town inn which will strive to serve the best beer around, sod the food, and three cheers for hazy vision and stinging eyes.

I have to say, Peter, I know exactly what you mean - it's precisely the evocative smell that makes me so afraid of giving up (oh, and believe it or not, the advice of my doctor - yes, she advised not packing it in just yet!) The smoke room is even worse, since they have cleaned it, put the lovely clutter in a cabinet and, worst of all, taken away that grotesque sailors head! I really miss the old tar now he's gone...

/<
 

Lakesailor

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Re: Well said, Davey Jones

[ QUOTE ]
three cheers for hazy vision and stinging eyes.



[/ QUOTE ]

Fine if you like that. I'm a non-smoker who has never smoked. I don't particularly dislike smokers, but the "get-out-of-my-face" attitude some show is a bit neanderthal.
If I were to stand on stool and fart in their face, would they see that as my natural right and depite the watering eyes and feeling of nausea defend my choice to carry on doing so?
No; Of course not.
 

AJW

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[ QUOTE ]
It's one of the ironies of life isn't it. When our children were small pubs had family rooms which were spartan, cheerless places in unattractive parts of the building, rather like the Butt's Smoke Room which I know well, and admire Kristal for banishing hmself to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh, when I was a small person, we seldom had family rooms and were banished outside to sit with a bottle of coke or R Whites to await father & mothers return from the hallowed sanctum within! Used to be fun, although of course you couldn't/would'nt leave your kids outside alone these days I 'spose.

I relish and miss immensely the traditional pub and a decent pint. Too many have changed into informal dining experiences. Even those with good food tend to make the drinker feel like he's intruding. As to those instance ambience from a packet, processed food, chilled real ale (cos its too difficult for the muppet pub manager to keep otherwise) places? Don't get me started.
 

Cobra

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Re: Well said, Davey Jones

[ QUOTE ]
Not the issue. I don't disagree. But if you sit in a room called the "Smoke Room" where ashtrays are provided on the tables, you are likely to get what it says on the tin.

If you want to continue the "smokers are evil" thread, at least post something that we haven't all heard before.

/<

PS: I breathe Diesel fumes all the time. And parafin, turpentine, meths, white spirit... I also usually have antifoul in my hair at this time of year, and the place in which I live has a fine layer of wax and soot all over it. I happen to like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly...the Butt has always had a smoke room, and whilst I don't smoke, and never have done, I have no problem with others lighting up and puffing away...it is their choice! Face it morons that sit in an area that is clearly branded 'SMOKE ROOM' can hardly expect it to not contain people smoking...having said that, god knows what will happen if Blair gets back in!

Sadly the character of the "Butt" is changing over the years, the days when the old bargemen sat and yarned will never return, and what we have now is a sanitised version with distant echoes of a long lost past.

And yes...please come back Pat!
 
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