The best electronics and charts?? Raymarine - Furuno - Simrad???

[inverse]

I want your opinion, what brand make the best marine electronics, I know that a mix of devices of all brands could be the best solution, but if the idea is put all the electronics from the same brand?

My opinion is:

- Furuno & Simrad make good precise electronics
- Raymarine: menor precision but have the best Friendly interface, and the latest tecnology, (ej: Seatalk HS 100 Mb bus)

And about charts?

Navionics gold? Cmap max? what charts do you think are the best?

Please post your opinion about the marine electronics..

Regards.

 

[Talbot]

To decide on the best charts would need a bit of discussion on where you are and where you intend cruising. C-Map NT+ used to be the best, and then Navionics format came out and was slightly better. The new C-Map Max probably just shades it in the format stakes. However that is only part of the story. C-Map are still supporting ALL their older formats, and furthermore have the best all round the world support, although I reckon the UK office needs to do a lot better in web site support. C-map have also IIRC been voted best for a large number of consecutive years.

Personnaly I use Navman as my plotter, have a Furono radar, and Silva instruments.

 

[jimg]

I would go for Raymarine, but what ever you do; do not mix the kit! If you do, you can find all sorts of problems. I have a boat that came with some Simrad and it took a year to get it to talk fully to a Raymarine upgrade!

 

[steverow]

Definitely for charts C-map are the best and most accurate by some margin.
These are the most widely used for commercial navigation, so therefore the leisure market gets better spin off. C-map Max are awsome.
I have never understood Raymarine's decision to change to Navionics charts, which seems a retograde step, and I can only assume it was made on purely commercial grounds.
Another approach you could take is to use a PC (laptop) plotter of which there are many very good products on the market. Take a look at Navmaster Offshore/Navmaster Superyacht from PC Maritime, Nobeltec Admiral, and SeaPro.
Whatever you do stick with Vector charts they are so much better.
For a laptop based system I would buy a cheaper fixed combined GPS/plotter such as a Garmin for back up and GPS input to the system.
You can do all sorts of things with a computer based system, even put repeater screens around the boat via the VGA output, control the plotter via a wireless mouse from anywhere in the boat, the options are endless. You can link your autopilot and radar etc to the PC via NMEA whatever make they are. There are far less compatibility isuues.
Generally a good PC based plotter will have better functionality than fixed plotters, and the latest offerings have all sorts of gizmo's such as real time tide and weather info, 3D seabed topography, depth and danger prognosis alarms, flashing buoys, etc etc. You can also plan your routes at home, without having to upload later.

Have a good look around first at all the available options and decide which suits you best before parting with cash.

Steve.

 

[jimg]

Re: The best electronics and charts?? Raymarine - Furuno - Simrad???

By the way, what boat are we talking about?

 

[gcwhite]

Why are you so convinced that C Map are better than Navioics?

 

[steverow]

Charts are always a personal preference, one mans meat..etc.
However, C-map have been around longer and have a huge database from which to draw on.
Navionics seem to concentrate on the leisure market, their niche seems to be the US fishing fraternity.
C-map is the opposite, their major market is commercial shipping, supplying ENC for some truly awesome ECDIS/IBS systems, with live satellite updating etc etc.
Navionics seem to be where C-map were about eight years ago, If you've ever used C-map ECS you will see exactly what I mean.
Navionics is only available on cartridges as far as I am aware, and there are only a very few less well known plotters in europe that support conversion to PC, with "PC Plotter" being probably the most famous.
I suspect (although I dont know for certain) that the majority of Navionics Charts
are drawn from US charts rather than UKHO sources, which brings in another layer
of possible inaccuracy. Cmap is an official UKHO S57 to ENC cartographer.
C-map are also big in aviation navigation systems.
To be honest I'm not knocking Navionics, I'm just putting forward reasons why
I personally think C-map is better.
For small leisure plotters it probably doesnt matter which charts you run anyway,
as their functionality is limited.
Anyway I dont want to get involved in an argument about it as I primarily use PC plotting on my tub, and this is not Navionics area of expertise.
Take a look at C-map Max and then make your decision on which is better and more advanced.
Also take a look at C-maps commercial shipping site to see what is out there and what we can expect as spin offs in the future. Oceanview looks lovely.
Oh, and finally, C-map have won the NMEA award for best electronic cartography
for more years than I can remember.

Steve.

 

[inverse]

Re: The best electronics and charts?? Raymarine - Furuno - Simrad???

We are only talking about charts, please post also opinion about electronics systems..

Furuno - Raymarine - Simrad

I want to know the experiencie whit the top displays of this brands..

Furuno NavNet
Raymarine E-series Seatalk HS
Simrad - CX displays

Inverse

 

[Oldhand]

Having only very recently made my first serious look at C-Map NT+ cartography, I am in absolute disagreement with your view of them. C-Map tells me stupid things like my nearest marina is 1.3 miles away inland and my next nearest marina is 6 miles away in a town with no sea frontage whatsoever. It tells me stupid things like where the nearest telephone is but gives no drying height for the tidal harbour so you don't know if you can get into the harbour to get to the telephone. Furthermore, C-Map allows you to "switch-off" the display of things such as traffic separation schemes such that you could blissfully sail up a lane against the traffic flow without knowing you were seriously infringing maratime law!

Liesure vector cartography is for the dustbin and must surely be the cause of the "requirement" that you should use paper charts as well. Raster charts are direct copies of the paper charts with no information ommitted and everything always dispalyed. Raster cartography is a no brainer choice IMHO.

Therefore, my answer to the original question is don't use anyone's dedicated electronic plotter but if you want digital plotting , use a decent PC with an application which can use ARCS, Maptech or Mapmedia cartography or all of them.

 

[steverow]

Would have to disagree I'm afraid.
Raster/BSB charts are crude in comparison to vector cartography.
You cant zoom in without the image pixellating, you are therefore pretty stuck with the scale of the original chart.
Maptech do not cover adequately the whole UK.
They do not have for instance detailed charts of the Bristol Channel, because they take their chart packages from UKHO leisure Folios.
The best way to use vector charts is to switch on all info layers and leave'em on.
What you are experiencing sounds like unfamilarity with your chart package.
Give it some time to get used to it. It takes a while to get out of the raster chart habit, particularly if you've been using paper charts for ages.

Steve.

 

[steverow]

Re: The best electronics and charts?? Raymarine - Furuno - Simrad???

OK then Raymarine, but only because they are well supported in the UK.
To be honest they are all a bit of a muchness. What one manufacturer does now, the others will have caught up with in six months time anyway.
Built in obsolescence they call it!
Personally, I use a PC plotter, for me it's far more convenient, and cheaper, and I can do other useful things with it like receiving Navtex and weatherfaxes, wind and tide data, e.mail, work from the boat..etc.
If my plotter goes out of date I can upgrade it much more cheaply, than paying two or three thousand quid for a new standalone all singing all dancing box of tricks.
Personally I would avoid integrated systems, if your plotter display conks out, then so does your radar,GPS and everything. Not that safe IMHO.
Good god, you may have to resort to a paper chart and dividers.
If you've got a separate Radar and GPS at least you can navigate with them.

It would be helpful if you told us where you are based and what boat you have
in order to give reasonable advice.
Fill in your bio in the user options.

Steve.

 

[tcm]

Re: The best electronics and charts?? Raymarine - Furuno - Simrad???

yep, i think that i'd steer clear of spending monster money on fixed gear. Floating down the solent i found i was the only crew member without a flipping garmin colour gps about my person.

 

[steverow]

Re: The best electronics and charts?? Raymarine - Furuno - Simrad???

I always take a GPS and H/H radio with me if I go on anybody else's boat.
You just never know....

Steve.

 

[smurfer]

Re: The best electronics and charts?? Raymarine - Furuno - Simrad???

Hi Inverse, I would go for Raymarine if you want very good leisure use equipment, I originally specified Simrad for my boat, however when I went to SIBS I was so unimpressed with the user interface of the Simrad equipment I changed the specification there and then, I don’t think it helped that the Simrad reps didn’t know how to use their own equipment.

The arguments regarding C-map and Navionics are academic, I run both Navionics on a C series plotter and C-map on a pc based chart plotter, I have this second setup for night motoring where I find the AIS ability of the Winchart programme extremely useful and reassuring, despite what you may have heard AIS is very good at letting you know exactly where big boats are heading and at what speed. However there is very little diverence between the two, both have minor advantages over the other but the fundemental information is well represented with both.

The ease of use of Raymarine at speed can’t be emphasised enough, because the big buttons at the bottom are intuitive it allows you to make settings without fiddling around which is truly useful when you are being thrown about.

Good luck with your choice.

 

[mjf]

Re: The best electronics and charts?? Raymarine - Furuno - Simrad???

Yep, me too.

Got me out of a pickle last year when we hit some fog on someone elses boat and the skipper looked at me and threw his hands in the air. had the gear O/B but never bothered to learn how to use it.

My hand held jobbie kept us in the channel and got us home.

 

[Oldhand]

<Raster/BSB charts are crude in comparison to vector cartography.>

1. I don't just use "BSB" raster charts, have you looked at Mapmedia raster charts for France? Much greater detail than any copies of UK Admiralty charts and they make C-Map look pathetic.

2. Why is a chart system where you have to "click" on an item to see an object's characteristic (vector cartography) less primative than a system where the information is always visible (raster)?

3. If you buy the correct raster chart packs for your requirements, then suitably large scale charts are made available such that there is no need to zoom in with the resulting pixelation. I view my raster charts on a 15" TFT monitor and have no "zooming" issues at all.

4. Vector cartography is created form existing paper chart data and if you are zooming in to a larger scale than the original chart data was digitised from, you are just fooling yourself into thinking the accuracy is greater than it can possibly be. As vector charts are produced by digitising individual points and joining them by straight lines, they actually reduce the accuracy of any coastline or contour.

5. Saying I should leave all the vector chart info layers on is stating the obvious and missing the point. It should be impossible to switch off any safety related data on any type of electronic cartography and only raster complies.

6. Liesure vector cartography remains in the dustbin where it belongs. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[BrendanS]

Your arguments sound similar to the people who didn't want printing presses to come into existence, as hand written text and illumination was far more aesthetic.
Vector cartography allows you to see any important navigational hazards or aids while entering ports or cruising close to shoreline, and at the same time allows you to zoom out and see info only pertinant to cruising. You can set up the level of zoom at which each of these show, and it works fine in practice.

Now I've used vector, I'd never go back to raster, I just have paper charts as backup.