Thames locking

[miket]

Just completed a trip from Sonning to Hampton Court over last weekend, and as said elsewhere, stunning weather.
We travelled from Sonning to Bray on Saturday and on down to Hampton Court on Sunday.
Progress was steady. I was surprised there were not more boats on the river on either day and we had no serious queuing issues.
I do have one serious question that is only slightly tinged with "grumpy old man syndrome"! I am hoping that someone such as AngelaQ or Teddington Lock can answer factually.

Since electrifying many of the locks for out of hours use, do lock keepers have an overide that gives them control or are they bound by the same procedures as "Joe public"?
It is only a slightly loaded question as I was a little miffed at the time it took to complete a locking, even when the lock contained only 1 or 2 boats. Main frustration was having emptied the lock we sat looking at the crack in the gates for upwards of 2 minutes before the gates were opened.
And no I am not getting at the keepers as they seemed to be doing all they could.

 

[Chris_d]

Just completed a trip from Sonning to Hampton Court over last weekend, and as said elsewhere, stunning weather.
We travelled from Sonning to Bray on Saturday and on down to Hampton Court on Sunday.
Progress was steady. I was surprised there were not more boats on the river on either day and we had no serious queuing issues.
I do have one serious question that is only slightly tinged with "grumpy old man syndrome"! I am hoping that someone such as AngelaQ or Teddington Lock can answer factually.

Since electrifying many of the locks for out of hours use, do lock keepers have an overide that gives them control or are they bound by the same procedures as "Joe public"?
It is only a slightly loaded question as I was a little miffed at the time it took to complete a locking, even when the lock contained only 1 or 2 boats. Main frustration was having emptied the lock we sat looking at the crack in the gates for upwards of 2 minutes before the gates were opened.
And no I am not getting at the keepers as they seemed to be doing all they could.

No, lockeepers have an override, they use the same buttons but there are no timers etc.. On OOHP Culham takes 20mins before you can open the top gates

 

[boatone]

Since electrifying many of the locks for out of hours use, do lock keepers have an overide that gives them control or are they bound by the same procedures as "Joe public"?
It is only a slightly loaded question as I was a little miffed at the time it took to complete a locking, even when the lock contained only 1 or 2 boats. Main frustration was having emptied the lock we sat looking at the crack in the gates for upwards of 2 minutes before the gates were opened.
And no I am not getting at the keepers as they seemed to be doing all they could.

As per ChrisD's reply - the lockies use full power whereas us mere mortals are given a rather more sedate procedure with a timed sequence which is understandable. Look on the bright side - it's a bloody sight easier than hand winding ever was!

 

[miket]

"No lockies have an over ride" said ChrisD.

Boatone.
Not what you are saying. In fact the opposite!
I would really like Teddington Lock to confirm which.

If they have an over ride, why is the operation so slow?

 

[Chris_d]

"No lockies have an over ride" said ChrisD.

Boatone.
Not what you are saying. In fact the opposite!
I would really like Teddington Lock to confirm which.

If they have an over ride, why is the operation so slow?

I have noticed some assistants using the timed sequence, maybe they are not allowed full control, also some lockies just do the one press and let the timer open the sluices in stages then wander off for a bit.

 

[Richard Shead]

Teddington Lock

"No lockies have an over ride" said ChrisD.

Boatone.
Not what you are saying. In fact the opposite!
I would really like Teddington Lock to confirm which.

If they have an over ride, why is the operation so slow?

As in the lock its self, is manned 24/7 so does not allow the public to use it but it can be filled by opening up the sluices in one go. I am sure Tedd Lock (the person) will be along to answer whether other locks have an override, I am pretty sure they do as they are able to open the sluice fully where as we cant.

 

[Brayman]

"No lockies have an over ride" said ChrisD.

Boatone.
Not what you are saying. In fact the opposite!
I would really like Teddington Lock to confirm which.

If they have an over ride, why is the operation so slow?

It seems to me that the operation is slow with some lockies because they can't be bothered to operate the lock properly and just use the "one push" option.

Real lockies use the override and keep a watch on what is going on, they also open the gates when the gap appears..

 

[shades]

It seems to me that the operation is slow with some lockies because they can't be bothered to operate the lock properly and just use the "one push" option.

Real lockies use the override and keep a watch on what is going on, they also open the gates when the gap appears..

It is true, some lockkeepers DO use the "public power" when they are on duty, it saves them from having to stand at the pedestal whilst the level is changing. This is NOT a practice that is encouraged!

Lockkeepers DO have FULL use of the system with no limits, all the over-rides are switched off. However, they can only fill or empty the lock at a rate that is safe - this relies on the ability/level of control demonstrated by the crew of the boats. The lock has to be run at the rate allowed by the lowest denominater in the lock - the least able or experienced crew!

The system does enable them to open/close the sluices from the other end of the lock - something that CANNOT be done under public power, but is an essential safety feature when a vessel gets hung up/down in the chamber.

Because all the over-rides are turned off when the lockkeeper is on duty, it is VERY IMPORTANT that untrained mortals DO NOT ATTEMPT to operate the system. There have been instances recently when "over eager boaters" have started opening the sluices at the end where they are waiting, while the gates are still OPEN at the other end!!! This is of course impossible to do when on public power due to the safety features built into the system.

 

[teddington_lock]

I would think that Shades is spot on here . I'm pretty certain that lockstaff have full control over it.

I'm probably not qualified to answer the question if i'm honest because all the new public power systems have been installed since i became based at Tedders , and i have not used any of them.

We have a very different system at Tedders , because there is no public power because we are a tidal site , and hence manned 24 hrs .

 

[miket]

Over ride

If I have understood the above correctly, then the lock keeper DOES have the option to over ride the "peasants" (public) system.

If this is indeed the case I am sorely disappointed with the level of interest/ enthusiasm being shown whilst the locks are NOT under "self service" regime.

I have a great deal of respect for REAL lock keepers (and there are still plenty of them) but they are being done no service at all by the others who are not interested and don't care.

After doing 20 locks over the course of last weekend, mainly manned, we are now reconsidering whether we wish to join our club cruise later in the year, to St Kat's and returning via ATYC at Kingston, purely because of the frustration involved in negotiating so many locks that take so long.
I am sorry to be a boring old fart, but it was NOT always thus!!

 

[boatone]

If I have understood the above correctly, then the lock keeper DOES have the option to over ride the "peasants" (public) system.

If this is indeed the case I am sorely disappointed with the level of interest/ enthusiasm being shown whilst the locks are NOT under "self service" regime.

Mike

ChrisD and I were actually in agreement regarding the Lockies having over ride for full power operations - he just forgot a comma after the word 'No' in his reply

I am sorry you have had such an (apparently) bad experience with some locks - this has certainly NOT been our general experience. In fact, I am usually pleasantly surprised how most lockies manage to keep us moving and get as many into the lock as they can, although there have always been the odd exceptions that prove the rule.

You could always communicate your concerns to Reading and identify the locks involved?

 

[miket]

relaxed passage

Our normal Thames cruising is relaxed and unhurried and tends to be between Cookham and Abingdon, so potentially a little quieter. We do not normally have any problem as we only tend to cruise for a few hours and then tie up for a relaxing afternoon and evening.

My above observations are based on a "necessary" trip, in order to reach the tideway and it proved incredibly frustrating, largely because of the lack of "haste" by some lock keepers.
I would not dream of ratting to Reading, but I think perhaps the good lock keepers should be aware how the bad ones irritate others like me.

 

[thamesS23]

whilst on the subject of locks on self service, thought I would mention our experience of marlow lock last friday. It was on a self service sign as it was lunchtime, and being the first boat in, I went and operated the lock once we were in place at the front (heading upstream), and from memory there was about another 4/5 boats in with us (one up the front next to us).
Now from my experience of doing locks on self service, they are normally set in such a way that you cant let in to much water at once, ie, just press the open sluices button and it will only partially open, then you have to wait a while before it lets in more water.

Anyway, this wasn't the case at marlow lock!! pressed the open sluices button (not held, just pressed once) and both sluices went straight to being fully open. The amount of water that rushed in caused both boats at the front to be pushed around with such force that both people holding the ropes were struggling to maintain control. Anyone know if this is the norm at marlow lock, or had it been left on the wrong setting maybe by the lock keeper before he went on lunch (if this is at all possible)?

 

[Chris_d]

Anyway, this wasn't the case at marlow lock!! pressed the open sluices button (not held, just pressed once) and both sluices went straight to being fully open. The amount of water that rushed in caused both boats at the front to be pushed around with such force that both people holding the ropes were struggling to maintain control. Anyone know if this is the norm at marlow lock, or had it been left on the wrong setting maybe by the lock keeper before he went on lunch (if this is at all possible)?

It must have been left on the overide setting or the position sensors had failed! Marlow was one of the last to be converted because it was considered too dangerous for this very reason.

 

[shades]

If the sluices continued to rise when you releases the button it MUST have been on Public Power mode. When in Lockkeeper mode, the sluices stop when the button is released. I accept that you considered that the sluices opened fully, but I do not think that is what really happened, though I am sure it felt fast.
I have seen Marlow Lock fill with the sluices fully opened and it is an absolutley awesome and terrifying sight - It will fill completely in well under TWO minutes! When I watched this being done, the white water was 3/4 of the way down the lock - It would not be safe to do that with anything in the chamber, unless there was only one vessel in the lock and it was right by the bottom gates and being crewed well.
When the public power system was installed and they set the timings for the lock filling, it was mid-winter and the tailwater level was considerably higher than normal summer levels. This gave a false picture of what timings were safe.
The engineers were informed, by the lockkepers who normally work the lock, that the timings may need to be altered once the river had dropped to summer levels.
I would suggest that you (and anyone else who has experienced a similar problem with the lock filling too fast) make contact with the Waterways Ofiice at Shepperton with the details. - 01276 454900 - I'm sure that the system will be reset to a slower and more manageable speed if enough people feel it currently topo fast!

 

[Chris_d]

If the sluices continued to rise when you releases the button it MUST have been on Public Power mode. When in Lockkeeper mode, the sluices stop when the button is released. I accept that you considered that the sluices opened fully, but I do not think that is what really happened, though I am sure it felt fast.

I thought that too but inlandnewbie did say they went to straight to fully open. However as you say Marlow is a rough ride even with partialy open sluices, unlike other more sedate locks

 

[TrueBlue]

I had occasion to use Marlow a few weeks back and was surpirised that the "first pull" of the OOPPS system let in what appeared to be a mighty torrent - so perhaps both sides are correct in their assertions.

Even though the round top pedestal system is not as good (IMHO) as the older systems below Boveney. It's a helluva lot better than winding by hand - Sanford was turned off last week ?because of a broken sluice ram? and the top gate was almost impossible to wind by hand.

So be exceedingly grateful for what you get 7 a.m. to 10 p.m luxury.
OR come to King's and above where you get Proper Locks.

 

[CJL]

Every set of locks, the control pedestals and the hydraulic systems are unique. At Sunbury and Osney depots they have a stock of the various unique pedestals, rams and hoses.

There is no particular system of how they work but the lock keepers do have a key for the pedestal which opens at the rear and then allows a greater amount of water in over a much shorter period of time. How it gets in the lock chamber itself is unique to each lock.

When they are off duty a reduced speed system is switched on until the power goes completely and your on manual.

The unique nature of the locks is why the out of hours contract for emergency repairs is not done by contractors (the gate replacement programme currently is) as its too complicated for them. (The re-sheeting of the gates is also retained "in-house" as it could need doing in an emergency.)

Chris