Techniques for getting heavy twin keelers across the mud

[dylanwinter]

I wonder if any of my fellow twin keel sailors would pass on a few tips

I am after ideas for making progress across shallow water in both forwards and reverse

I am on a drying pontoon and the Rythe has a soft muddy bar that is good to pass at the earliest part of the flood

Just attempting to lay on the power seems surprisingly innefective

Dylan

 

[MJWF]

I have tried walking the boat on each keel in turn by rhythmic application of the rudder and moderate power. Once got me out of a long wait on a mudbank in Poole...

Good luck..

 

[sailorman]

twin keels are great, especially when ashore. afloat a fin is King:encouragement:

 

[LadyInBed]

Lighten the load

 

[dylanwinter]

all going pretty much as I expected so far

sensible advice will soon arrive

but I have been around here long enough not to get disheartened

 

[Blueboatman]

Shovel, low tide ..
Or leave it in full 'ard ahead and wiggle the rudder while you enjoy a leisurely cuppa....?

A Centaur is quite heavy. There is ( just about) an inside route from Faro to Tavira along the Algarve thru the marshes on a spring tide , but man I climbed the mast, wiggled the outboard at full chat, shoved with the sculling oar all one ton of boat, and possibly almost walked the boat over the sticky watershed bits..got in the dinghy at one point lashed alongside with o/b full chat, even..happy days !
Wot about a dredger transit on a barge?

 

[dancrane]

I don't think I understand your question, Dylan. Is the Centaur hard on the mud?

twin keels are great, especially when ashore. afloat a fin is King:encouragement:

Pardon me Sailorman, but how would Dylan's dilemma be eased or solved if his yacht had a deep fin?

 

[Gwylan]

I wonder if any of my fellow twin keel sailors would pass on a few tips

I am after ideas for making progress across shallow water in both forwards and reverse

I am on a drying pontoon and the Rythe has a soft muddy bar that is good to pass at the earliest part of the flood

Just attempting to lay on the power seems surprisingly innefective

Dylan

Delicate mixture of patience and water.

 

[flaming]

Dad had a tin keel Griffon when I was growing up.

Trick we discovered by accident when we'd gone aground on a falling tide was that to reduce draft on a bilge keeler you get all the available weight onto the foredeck. This seemed to lift the keels just enough to get free. Only discovered this when Dad and everyone else took the dinghy onto the foredeck to blow it up leaving me aged about 9 and about 6 stone wringing wet on the helm. Suddenly discovered we were free again and then we figured out why.

 

[dancrane]

Maybe I dreamed it...but I'm sure I heard of rowing the kedge to a point maybe 80m in the direction you want to go...then leading the line from the kedge to the masthead...

...so that when you winch in the line from the deck, you induce both towing and heeling forces, dragging the boat towards your target and reducing her draft.

Hmm...I think I did dream it, it sounds nightmarish.

 

[flaming]

Maybe I dreamed it...but I'm sure I heard of rowing the kedge to a point maybe 80m in the direction you want to go...then leading the line from the kedge to the masthead...

...so that when you winch in the line from the deck, you induce both towing and heeling forces, dragging the boat towards your target and reducing her draft.

Hmm...I think I did dream it, it sounds nightmarish.

Done that (admittedly not with a kedge but another boat) but it wouldn't work with a bilge keeler as heeling simply pushes one keel deeper.

 

[dancrane]

...wouldn't work with a bilge keeler as heeling simply pushes one keel deeper.

Doesn't it depend how hard you winch? Eventually she'll still go over, won't she?

View attachment 42130

 

[prv]

Doesn't it depend how hard you winch? Eventually she'll still go over, won't she?

Until the "leeward" fin reaches vertical you will be increasing draft. Even after that point, you need to add about the same angle again to get back to where you started, and only then will you start reducing it. That's a hell of a long way over on a Westerly or Sadler with splayed keels, and no, you won't achieve it with an anchor and a winch.

Pete

 

[dancrane]

Okay...thanks Pete, I'm sure that's accurate.

I sense all answers for Dylan will henceforth retreat back into the womb of daftness from which I attempted to draw a hope...

...how about keeping a big old Avon round-tail, like a Redshank, fully deflated on deck...and on realising that the yacht is aground, you whip the big floppy Avon over the bow, and tow it under the yacht using lines (rigged in advance from bow to stern) between the keels...then (follow me closely, here)...you inflate the Avon!

Must be about 7,000 Newtons of buoyancy in a big inflatable. Bound to lift a Centaur a few inches.

Dylan, if, after a long lunch with Johnnie Walker, you were to use one of my ideas, please be sure to film the episode!

 

[Seajet]

Might be worth shifting any moveable weight aft, to prevent the forward toes of the keels digging in ?

 

[OldBawley]

Thinking of a remake of Fitzcarraldo ?

 

[prv]

Might be worth shifting any moveable weight aft, to prevent the forward toes of the keels digging in ?

Seems plausible to me, as long as it didn't seriously deepen the overall draft.

The answer in Kindred Spirit was easy - because the deepest point was the sternpost, where the rudder met the keel, I could achieve several inches of draft reduction by running to the bow, or in extremis to the end of the bowsprit. Of course, if I was trying to back off the putty I would generally have the engine running at full chat in reverse, so when we suddenly came free it was important to get back to the cockpit equally quickly!

Pete

 

[laika]

Thinking of a remake of Fitzcarraldo ?

+1, although when it comes to yachts I gather kinski was best avoided.

 

[Ammonite]

I wonder if any of my fellow twin keel sailors would pass on a few tips

I am after ideas for making progress across shallow water in both forwards and reverse

I am on a drying pontoon and the Rythe has a soft muddy bar that is good to pass at the earliest part of the flood

Just attempting to lay on the power seems surprisingly innefective

Dylan

It isn't a soft muddy bar anymore, it's hard sand. You won't plough through it and need to stick to the very narrow channel. I draw 1.5 metres and on neaps I can scrape in 4 hours before high tide. The channel runs from the mill rythe buoy to a point 10 metres south of the easterly cardinal then hang a left aiming for the first mooring buoy, bearing to starboard approx 150 yards b4 you reach it aiming between the starboard channel markers and the line of mooring buoys. Once past the first 3 or 4 buoys stick to the middle of the channel.

 

[sailorman]

Until the "leeward" fin reaches vertical you will be increasing draft. Even after that point, you need to add about the same angle again to get back to where you started, and only then will you start reducing it. That's a hell of a long way over on a Westerly or Sadler with splayed keels, and no, you won't achieve it with an anchor and a winch.

Pete

That is why a fin keel is better , heeling reduces the draft