Teak/Iroko- endangered species

claymore

claymore

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In the interests of rainforest protection - people should not be allowed to use teak or iroko on their decks.
I think this should apply in the first instance to people whose existing decks are knackered and need replacing and they should use treadmaster or just a bit of emulsion with some sand in it.

<hr width=100% size=1>regards
Claymore
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I am told that most of the teak used now is from plantations - I don't know how true this is, and I doubt if it applies to iroko, which comes from West Africa.

Anyway, I agree with you. <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Mirelle on 09/03/2004 09:29 (server time).</FONT></P>
 
I think that this is a bit harsh. However, there must be lots of bits of unused iroko and teak, especially small twigs and leaves. These should be made into a nice mulch and mixed in with the paint for the deck, or used to stuff the mattresses beforeany further use of whole trees.

The other alternative would be to get some sheets of wood effect hardboard cut to size and stick them down. Much quicker than teak strips as well as being far more environmentally aware.

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Where does that leave me then,,,,,,,,,Hermees is Teak from the keel to the cabin roof!!!!!!

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.jersey-harbours.com>http://www.jersey-harbours.com</A>
 
Regrettably, there appears very little, if any, control over teak sold in both Europe and the United States.

I believe that the majority of teak comes from Burma, which is exempt from export tax and props up the military dictatorship while the populace close to starves. This trade is only second to drugs.

As sailors, we enjoy many freedoms. What an appalling example we set to our children. I notice that whenever this subject is raised, things either go quiet or we blame the furniture trade but never ourselves.

I find Claymore’s comments in rather poor taste, which is unusual for him.

Is this forum only for a laugh or are we afraid to face and tackle real issues ?




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No not afraid to tackle real issues which is why I wont bank with a company that has a call centre in India and why my meagre investments are done as ethically as possible. I also use eco products and wear Dear Hearts discarded drawers as there's still plenty of life in them long after she has moved into a new pair.
Sorry if my comment offended - that was not my intention - just poking fun at Twister Ken.
Claymore has glassfibre decks.

<hr width=100% size=1>regards
Claymore
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Teak is now grown in a sustainable manner
Its very easy to see the grain is not so fine on new teak which makes repairs to older items tricky.
No doubt some genuine rain forest teak still gets sold worldwide... But ive never seen any "new" teak with such fine tight grain as seen from victorian times...
Also...
We dont use teak anything like as much as we used to...Example...The wiring you can see out of the tube train window... Throughout the entire London underground system... was until recent years... All bolted to a run of teak almost 2in thick!. (very very nice stuff)

Horse troughs at racecourses used to be made of solid teak over 2in thick (i should know cos i salvaged one from fontwell (again.. much better quality than "new" teak))

<hr width=100% size=1>www.victorious.co.uk
 
Re: Flames

Not afraid to face real issues at all, the most pressing of which seems to be the number of politically correct goody two shoes hereabouts!

1. Overall I don't think we set a bad example to our children at all. For example, students and even young children are far more aware of career-building than we were 30 years ago.

2. Exactly how would you tackle the teak trade? Any idea? It wouldn't come from sailors ripping their decks off for a start. Because many of the boats wcome from abroad. If action needed to be taken (which I am not at all sure is required) we'd need a government in power that unilaterally banned various practices such as using teak on boats, and had a good record of working with foreign government to encourage them to do the same. I would venture that such a government would first ban lots of other things too. I wonder what sort of government would do that? Would it be a touchy-feely government like Blair's? Unlikely - they've failed to ban/promote lots of things, hiding behind "third way" platitudes specifically designed to stay in power rather than do very much with the power they have. They also bombed foreign countries, and in so doing have fallen out with plenty of other powers with whom they used to have influence. How likely would others be to support Blair banning or limiting the use of teak?

3. I don't find Claymore's comments are in poor taste at all. in fact, you seem to be alone in this regard. "Being serious" isn't always the best way to raise an issue by any means. in fact, "being serious" is often the position adopted by people who are uncomfortable with a difficult subject, or who are slightly out of their depth. Their PC "seriousness" is all they have to bring to the party - no ideas, no solutions nothing. Just a lot of handwringing and worried frowning. Blair does this. And aren't you doing the same?
 
Re: Flames

I do wish you'd stop all this shilly-shallying around and tell it as it is.

<hr width=100% size=1>regards
Claymore
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Re: Flames

I am very PC and very much into protecting the things that are important to all of us. So I feel driven to protecting the continued use of teak/iroko in boats /forums/images/icons/smile.gif.

I am off to find a boat with teak decks to hug and will promise the owner that I will not spill my muesli on his deck (sandals off too I expect 'cause the soles are black as made from recycled car tyres).

Anyone for a rally?

John


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Re: Flames

I have coated my teak deck with grp so as to protect the sensibilities of tree huggers like you.

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There is a certification of timber origin scheme run by FSC ( Forestry Stewardship Council ) and TRADA ( Timber Research and Development Association )
Teak and iroko with these certs. will have come from sustainable sources - you can buy and use with a clear conscience.
I was in Ceylon (as was) in the 1960s and there were managed plantations of 30 year old teak trees even in those days.

The problem is Burma.....

and also mahogany from the Amazon plus the softwood from the Canadian rain forests..
Its never ending .. will there be any thing left for our grandchildren ?

Stephen

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A sense of proportion, missing here??

Will there be anything left for our grandchildren?

There is the nub of it. 'for our grandchildren' to do WHAT with it? Use as furniture, teak decks, look at?

The reality is that these magnificent hardwoods are relatively slow to grow and thus replace. I can't see them being endangered sp. since they can be replaced and propagated v straighforwardly. Surely, it is the loss of the rainforest generally, for it's place in the CO2--O2 cycle? It doesn't have to be teak, iroko to do that job... some plants like gooseberry bushes can create more oxygenation per acre than trees!!

We tend to be misinformed on these things, and the loss of teak to the world would only influence you or me when we can't use it on our decks or furniture - but its scarcity will make it a great cash-crop, and that is already what it is becoming.

;-))

<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all
 
Victorious,

Thanks for the response.

I am very interested to know where ‘sustainable’ marked hardwoods can be obtained.

PBO a couple of year’s ago , published a website listing timber suppliers that sold sustainable woods. This was in response to a similar question as to mine.Unfortunately, none were listed for hardwood, only softwoods.

I telephoned a number of local timber merchants and none would either respond, or could not tell if their hardwood supplies came from sustainable sources.


Regards,


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Re: Flames

TCM

You have clearly not taken any steps to research the subject ( other people contributing to this post have appeared to have done the same as myself).

Very young children, along with adults, are in effect slaves, and it is not uncommon for them to be systematically raped by the militia. To my researched knowledge, no attempt is made to renew teak supplies in Burma. Although it would be very gratifying to know if things have changed.

I welcome your response, but your post says nothing, and is clearly intended to belittle myself and others .

Many of us I am sure, make decisions on what we do in life other than taking a lead from governments.
This is called freedom of choice, which the majority of people in Burma do not have.

Regards,



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Re: A sense of proportion, missing here??

DeeGee,

Thanks for the response. You make very valid points.

It is not only the non-renewable factor of teak.But on what conditions it is produced and where the profits go that I am sure also bothers us users.

REagrds,







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Re: Flames

I don’t quite understand your post but the reference to ‘tree huggers’ suggests that you are making no attempt to make a contribution.

Although I have largely enjoyed your posts I do notice that many boatbuilders, or former boatbuilders have trouble using certain materials that deep down, are very concerned about what they are doing.

I know this, because when I ask (even in a nice way) normally respond very aggressively or in the way you have chosen. It must be a very difficult choice when trying to make a living and respond to client needs.

I can assure you that I am not a PC type of person. At least to me anyway.

Regards,


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