Synthetic oil in Volvo Penta (or any diesel) engine...

[cmedsailor]

Besides paying more will the use of a synthetic oil offer anything more to a Volvo Penta MD2030 engine? Lower noise, better consumption maybe?
Will be changed every 100-150 hours or more realistically once a year.
Thanks

 

[ghostlymoron]

Synthetic oil is not normally recommended for marine diesels. I don't know why but someone will advise us soon.

 

[vyv_cox]

No. There was a very long thread on this subject a while ago, suggest you search for it.

Synthetics are fine for high-performance, turbo-charged engines running for extended periods. Most yacht auxiliary engines are none of these. Using high-performance lubricants in a low-performance engine can cause excessive wear.

 

[jimbaerselman]

It's the specification of the oil which tells you what it can do, not how it's made. Although individual manufacturers don't really want you to know that . . . see API Secifications.

 

[saltwater_gypsy]

Here is the same list as Jim's in a simplified form. Basically try to match yhe year of manufacture of your engine with the most appropriate oil.For an older engine ,use the older specification otherwise the higher level of additives and detergent will be "counter-beneficial" for you engine.You have to carefully read t he small print on the can.

API MOTOR OIL GUIDE

CJ-4 CURRENT Introduced in 2006. For high-speed, four-stroke engines designed to meet 2007 model year on-highwayexhaust emission standards. CJ-4 oils are compounded for use in all applications with diesel fuels rangingin sulfur content up to 500 ppm (0.05% by weight). However, use of these oils with greater than 15 ppm(0.0015% by weight) sulfur fuel may impact exhaust aftertreatment system durability and/or oil draininterval. CJ-4 oils are effective at sustaining emission control system durability where particulate filtersand other advanced aftertreatment systems are used. Optimum protection is provided for control of catalystpoisoning, particulate filter blocking, engine wear, piston deposits, low- and high-temperature stability, soothandling properties, oxidative thickening, foaming, and viscosity loss due to shear. API CJ-4 oils exceed theperformance criteria of API CI-4 with CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4 and CF-4 and can effectively lubricateengines calling for those API Service Categories. When using CJ-4 oil with higher than 15 ppm sulfur fuel,consult the engine manufacturer for service interval.
CI-4 CURRENT Introduced in 2002. For high-speed, four-stroke engines designed to meet 2004 exhaust emission standardsimplemented in 2002. CI-4 oils are formulated to sustain engine durability where exhaust gas recirculation(EGR) is used and are intended for use with diesel fuels ranging in sulfur content up to 0.5% weight. Canbe used in place of CD, CE, CF-4, CG-4, and CH-4 oils. Some CI-4 oils may also qualify for the CI-4 PLUSdesignation.
CH-4 CURRENT Introduced in 1998. For high-speed, four-stroke engines designed to meet 1998 exhaust emission standards.CH-4 oils are specifically compounded for use with diesel fuels ranging in sulfur content up to 0.5% weight.Can be used in place of CD, CE, CF-4, and CG-4 oils.
CG-4 CURRENT Introduced in 1995. For severe duty, high-speed, four-stroke engines using fuel with less than 0.5% weightsulphur. CG-4 oils are required for engines meeting 1994 emission standards. Can be used in place of CD,CE, and CF-4 oils.
CF-4 CURRENT Introduced in 1990. For high-speed, four-stroke, naturally aspirated and turbocharged engines. Can be usedin place of CD and CE oils.
CF-2 CURRENT Introduced in 1994. For severe duty, two-stroke-cycle engines. Can be used in place of CD-II oils.
CF CURRENT Introduced in 1994. For off-road, indirect-injected and other diesel engines including those using fuel withover 0.5% weight sulfur. Can be used in place of CD oils.
CE OBSOLETE Introduced in 1985. For high-speed, four-stroke, naturally aspirated and turbocharged engines. Can be usedin place of CC and CD oils
CD-11 OBSOLETE Introduced in 1985. For high-speed, four-stroke, naturally aspirated and turbocharged engines. Can be usedin place of CC and CD oils
CD OSOLETE Introduced in 1955. For certain naturally aspirated and turbocharged engines.
CC OBSOLETE CAUTION: Not suitable for use in diesel-powered engines built after 1990.
CB OBSOLETE CAUTION: Not suitable for use in diesel-powered engines built after 1961.
CA OBSOLETE CAUTION: Not suitable for use in diesel-powered engines built after 1959.

 

[cmedsailor]

Interesting. The engine was built in 2001 so I guess is either CI-4 or CH-4.
Are these little (29hp) marine engines ..."high speed"?

 

[sailorman]

buy Asda 15>40 about £8 for 5lts
check the spec against the API

 

[vyv_cox]

The problem with these tables is the interpretation of the wording. 'Can be used to replace CD oils' doesn't necessarily mean that it is a perfect substitute.

The problem is that automotive engines have developed considerably since the older oils were introduced, whereas yacht engines in general have not. Looking at API CD, introduced in 1955, think Morris Minor or Ford Popular, or their diesel equivalents. Many yacht engines are not a lot younger than these, and their use has hardly changed ever since. We still use them intermittently, run them for short periods, hardly ever get them up to their design temperatures (raw water ones probably never) and their specific power output is laughable in modern terms. Meanwhile our Morris Minors etc have gone from 30 HP per litre to 80 HP per litre, with all the temperature and lubrication problems that the higher power brings.

Major oil manufacturers won't be bothered with the very small marine auxiliary market so they recommend the nearest they can, which is the lowest API grade in their range. The difference lies in the total base number, or TBN. The TBN for API CC was 3, for API CD it was 3-4 but for API CF-4 it is 9. This chemistry change can have consequences for wear, especially of bores.

The rule, as always, is to use what your engine manufacturer recommends. For many of us this is API CD, which is becoming increasingly difficult to source. I found out yesterday that Shell's Rimula C, which was API CD, is no longer made. Shell, Total, Exxon, etc API CD grades are available in Europe but it seems not in UK.

 

[Ruffles]

Another good source are agricultural suppliers. They usually sell the castrol agri range which can be cheap especially in large drums.

 

[vyv_cox]

It's got very little to do with when it was built, everything to do with when it was designed. My Yanmar 3GM was new in 2000 but the recommended oil is API CD, obsolete in 1990. Check your manual.

In diesel terms most yacht engines are 'high-speed' but don't forget that the API tables are targetting automotive use.

 

[Vamoose]

There was an article in the Dec issue of PBO about this very subject by their Engine Expert.. He does not reccomend Synthetic Oils for reasons which he outlines in the article, and says the best oil to use is the grade specified by the manufacturer !

Last season I used synthetic in my VP 2002, but this year am going back to the grade reccomended by VP

 

[cmedsailor]

Thank you guys. I was always looking at the 15W-40 but never realised anything about quality. I can see now that in the manual the oil quality recommended is: CD, CE, CF, CF-4, CG-4.
What an excellent site!!

 

[sailorman]

i always buy on the oil spec not brand.

some of the companies who dont make oil
volvo
ford
halfords
asda
tesco

 

[trying]

In addition to the API spec, oils designed for marine use will have different additive packages to oils designed for use in cars. ie. they are designed for the conditions in which marine engines work. For example additives to combat oxidation which will be greater in the marine environment. Some are designed for longer periods without use. Marine engine oils are also designed for differnent engine load characteristics to those of car engines.

How much difference through the life of a pair of engines would be interesting to see.

 

[sailorman]

my Kubota based Nanni states CE or CF so no specialist oil req

 

[pvb]

I have an old Volvo 2003T, and it's been running happily for years on Halfords Part Synthetic 10W/40 Diesel Oil. Good balance of price vs quality, especially if you buy when it's on offer.

 

[seaesta]

Previous threads have argued from experience that using a over specified oil (such as synthetic in a basic marine diesel) will result in "bore glazing" and consequently expensive repairs.
The API spec oils are released in series so CF followed CE (and replaced it as the best available for diesels) and Ce had replaced CD etc.
The main thing is to change the oil often - with use it uses up its ability neutalise the acid generated by burning diesel (marine diesel can produce more acid than derv). The TBN numer referred to by others describes the oils ability to neutalise acid.
Having run large diesel fleets my own recommendation is to buy oil at the grade specified for your engine (or as near as you can) and change it often. It is better to change it and get rid of all the particulates taht can cause wear rather than to buy over specified oil and change it less often.
cheers
Martin

 

[Heckler]

Yes they are in older terminology! My CAT gennies in Africa were "high speed" they revved at 1500 or 1800 depending on the cycles required. Rolls Royce eagles, used in diesel shunters were "high speed" again 1800 revs so the vp2030 is definitely a high revver
Stu

 

[PeterGibbs]

Quote: Some are designed for longer periods without use. Marine engine oils are also designed for differnent engine load characteristics to those of car engines.

How much difference through the life of a pair of engines would be interesting to see.
_____________________________

I use Castrol Diesel oil, auto grade, on my Volvo 50hp, the Perama - it's really a Perkins block, as used in Austin diesels of old. Never missed a beat in 11 seasons, and 2700 hours.

Other motors are higher spec - I guess that includes most of the Jap blocks. Diesel combustion produces particulates that are held in suspension by the oil so any diesel engine has to have an oil suitable for this purpose.

Car engines are generally ahead of marine motors for obvious reasons, so oil that works for them will surely be right for us.

Synthetic oils pay where the loads are greater - my 120 S drive specifies synthetic and I can understand the case - I use best synthetic there, changed every 2 years. Many other gearboxes do not require synthetic, and share a sump with the engine, so no differentiation is possible.

When I had a Bukh, the guys at Bukh UK maintained that a mineral oil changed every year was ideal for the reason that synthetic will not bind with water, as mineral will, so will not take moisture out of ciurculation and protect the top gear from resultant corrosion. I have had water incursions into my (Bukh) engine and can testify to this binding benefit.

Mineral by preference then, and synthetic only whre the manufacturer insists.

PWG

 

[Trundlebug]

The main reason for use of synthetic oils in modern car diesels is for extended service intervals - fully synth doesn't break down with use like mineral oils.

However in a marine engine, where storage over winter means the engine will be unused for a long period, annual oil changes are necessary, for the reasons stated above. Consequently unless you're doing serious hours in a season (at least twice the recommended change interval) there's really no benefit in using fully synthetic oil in a marine diesel. Just a waste of money as you're paying for extended service interval without getting the benefit of it.

I always buy mineral oil, in 25L drums of the right grade (15W40 in my case) CF4, and of reputable but not big branded name - Morris, usually. Available from motor factors and trade outlets at a good price - even cheaper than the supermarkets.

As others have said above, frequent oil changing is without doubt the best way to achieving long life from diesel engines.