Syndicate as way into boating

[Mileholm]

First time poster, but long-time - still boat-less - lurker.

Having grown up spending lots of holidays on my grandparents boats, I am now ready to get my own. I am hoping for some insight or views on my plan to get into Med boating in a syndicate.

As a full-time working parent with two young kids, I have neither the holiday time, nor the limitless resources, for it to make sense attempting to buy and maintain the boat I’d like (a 15-20 year old, £250-400k, 2-3 cabin, 45ft+ Fairline, Princess or Sunseeker). We're unlikely to use it more than 5-6 weeks per year + possibly a few long weekends.

The ideal scenario that I’ve dreamt up is joining a new or existing, 6-8 person, well-run syndicate - sharing a well-maintained boat in the Balearics or somewhere between Marseille and La Spezia. My logic would be that if I paid £30-50k for a 1/6 or 1/8 share in such a boat, I could see my yearly costs limited to a max of £10k - say £5k depreciation and £5k share of running costs.

There are a couple of boat shares listed on eBay and Facebook at the moment which are in the vicinity of what I’m looking for. A 2001Squadron 52 1/8 share listed for £25k (looks tired) and a 2005 Princess 61 for £55k (bit big).

Having read every post on the forum I could find on boat sharing syndicates, I appreciate I'd need to be careful about what I get myself in to. But my question is how realistic folks think it is that I can find what I’m looking for? Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

 

[jrudge]

It works but it depends on what 6 weeks you get.

6 weeks will be an 8th share.

The summer is 8 weeks so that is a week each

with kids it won't work for you.

 

[Seastoke]

Coul you not charter.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

I looked into this last year. Interesting idea. The best balance is a syndicate with some members with school age kids and some without, the school summer holidays aren’t attractive unless you have to take your time then. Could you join an existing syndicate that’s already set up?

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Take a look at Yacht Share Network

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[Mileholm]

It works but it depends on what 6 weeks you get.

6 weeks will be an 8th share.

The summer is 8 weeks so that is a week each

with kids it won't work for you.

Thanks. Agree 1/6 (meaning 8 weeks allotted usage) is likely to make it more likely to get enough useful weeks. However, being Scandinavian, I find mid-March in the Western Med is like glorious early summer in Northern Denmark. Also, the kids have 12 weeks off per year (1 in Feb, 2 in April, 6 in summer, 1 in October and nearly 2 over Christmas/New Year), so there should be a chance of getting a number of these. And I could see myself using the boat with a group of friends as well. So I think I'd find 4-5 weeks I'd be happy with out of 8.

Coul you not charter.

Absolutely, but something like a £300k, 2006, Targa 52GT is about £10k for a week's charter. My numbers might be all wrong, but I wonder if I could not get get 5-6 weeks actual use per year for that same £10k (£5k depreciation of my buy-in and another £5k in share of ongoing costs).

I looked into this last year. Interesting idea. The best balance is a syndicate with some members with school age kids and some without, the school summer holidays aren’t attractive unless you have to take your time then. Could you join an existing syndicate that’s already set up?

Very good point. I also helps that we live in Scotland where school summer holidays start at the end of June, so we have 3 weeks from then until anyone with school age kids in England are likely to be overly interested in scoring the weeks. I'd happily join an existing syndicate where someone is selling their share due to trading up, getting-out of boating or buying on their own. But I don't see many syndicate shares being listed anyone.

Take a look at Yacht Share Network

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Thanks. I have indeed been monitoring that site for a little while, but haven't seen anything that fits the bill. Most med-shares are well outside my budget. Several Australian websites list lots of shares, but that's a bit far to go for regular boating.

 

[Tranona]

Holding together a 6-8 member syndicate on a 20 year old boat is a real challenge. There are essentially 2 kinds of syndicate that work. The first is a group of friends who club together to buy a boat, but usually only 3 or 4 members or a model more akin to a time share where the boat is professionally managed. The latter is more like buying a block of charter weeks. In reality there are very few of either because it is very risky for members. Getting 6 people to agree on a boat and pattern of individual usage that is complementary is nigh on impossible. Boats are very personal things and sharing something you part own is difficult for most people. I suspect you will find many of the shares in older boats are for sale because of a falling out of members or the cost of keeping the boat up to scratch is escalating, particularly in the high cost areas you are looking at.

My experience is in sailing boats where there are more options and I went for a charter management deal which gave me up to 6 weeks usage a year. Like a syndicate it is a long term commitment and a rather illiquid asset until you take final possession of the boat. There are however few opportunities for the sort of boat you are looking at for exactly the same reason as why successful syndicates are rare - too risky. However things are changing with the coming of power cats and some charter operators are offering charter/purchase deals with such boats - example here mooringsyachtownership.com/uk/yachts-for-sale/power-catamarans/moorings-403pc

 

[roa312]

Take a look at Yacht Share Network

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There's a 1/6 share for sale in a Princess 61 also owned by Harry Metcalfe (link). He mentioned it at 21:19 in the video below. How can you pass up on that

 

[benjenbav]

Lots of great comments already. I would add that before you join any syndicate do please think about your exit route.

However well-aligned the syndicate members are today the chances are that life-events will happen over a period of a few years that will disrupt the accord. Someone needs to pay for a divorce; someone loses interest… etc.

What happens next? In part this depends on there being a sensible agreement setting out the rules as between the syndicate members and covering scenarios that may arise - whether that’s allocation of family friendly weeks, organisation of maintenance, changing the boat or whether you can sell your share to anyone or only back to the syndicate, or to someone approved by the other members.

It also depends on the other members - present and future. You can have the best syndicate agreement in the world and still end up spending a disproportionate amount of time trying to enforce compliance by members of the awkward squad.

 

[benjenbav]

Deleted - duplicate

 

[petem]

Take a look at Yacht Share Network

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I would avoid "Networks" like the plague. Find a boat with some like-minded owners would be far better IMO.

 

[petem]

There's a 1/6 share for sale in a Princess 61 also owned by Harry Metcalfe (link). He mentioned it at 21:19 in the video below. How can you pass up on that

Another syndicate to be avoided like the plague.

 

[Hooligan]

I think your estimated annual cost is a little low unless you mean cash depreciation ie you assume that depreciation equals maintenance capex. Even then I suspect that in the Balearics these days the marina cost would eat at least half of the balance of the £5. Golden rule of boating - whatever you think it costs, double it. If it can go wrong it always does!

 

[PlanB]

Slightly off topic, but does your previous experience run to handling a 50 footer, and will your family be active crew?
Even I (who started at 45 ft) think that's a bit of a challenge for a new venture, not to mention single handed if the family won't/can't join in.

 

[Mileholm]

Thanks all. Some really good points and warnings.

Slightly off topic, but does your previous experience run to handling a 50 footer, and will your family be active crew?
Even I (who started at 45 ft) think that's a bit of a challenge for a new venture, not to mention single handed if the family won't/can't join in.

Entirely fair - one of the reasons a 60ft+ doesn't appeal (as much as I'd like to share a boat with Mr Metcalfe). I would expect to have a pro skipper along for the first few trips to get skills and confidence.

 

[petem]

I've run a 3 man syndicate in Spain for 7 years (Targa 34). It's been overwhelmingly successful and I've had some great partners. Everyone who has owned a share has enjoyed it and most have gone on to larger boats. Personally, I'd avoid anything that's professionally managed as there are too many overheads and conflicts of interest.

 

[Mileholm]

I've run a 3 man syndicate in Spain for 7 years (Targa 34). It's been overwhelmingly successful and I've had some great partners. Everyone who has owned a share has enjoyed it and most have gone on to larger boats. Personally, I'd avoid anything that's professionally managed as there are too many overheads and conflicts of interest.

Yes, have followed your story and Andiamo looks beautiful. Something that works as well as what you've managed to put together would be ideal and clearly a smaller group must mean it is less likely things go wrong between partners.

 

[Seastoke]

Your 5k depreciation seems ok but 5k for mooring and maintenance , who is cleaning inside and out shopping lifts antifoul engines , you will use 5k in fuel. What if you sign up and the wife and kids don’t like it.

 

[roa312]

I've run a 3 man syndicate in Spain for 7 years (Targa 34). It's been overwhelmingly successful and I've had some great partners. Everyone who has owned a share has enjoyed it and most have gone on to larger boats. Personally, I'd avoid anything that's professionally managed as there are too many overheads and conflicts of interest.

Re overheads: Surely the professionally managed options are more expensive where they allow the owners to be hands-off regarding maintenance and other responsibilities. Not too dissimilar to chartered or crewed yacht—and clearly, from the Yacht Share Network, many of the yachts fall into the crewed category. Or are you referring to something else when mentioning higher overheads?

Re conflicts of interest: Wouldn't such issues be addressed (avoided) by the syndicate contract/agreement? Or are there particular areas where you see conflicts occurring more frequently in professionally managed syndicates compared to private shared ownership?

 

[petem]

I won't name names but I know of a professionally run syndicated boat (c. 60ft / 6 members) where the annual running costs were supposed to be around £15k person (p.a.). They ended up being £30k per person. The record keeping was abysmal, there were concerns that the person managing the boat was taking a commission from trades people and he ended up sacking the (very miserable) professional skipper so that he could employ his son as skipper. In addition, the person managing the syndicate was taking a commission from people selling their shares. Furthermore, the boat was is such a poor state that they were advised that an attempt to sell it in its entirety would be problematic when it came to surveys and sea trials.

For our little boat, we are able to vet future owners, the accounts are kept meticulously and I don't charge any fees for running the boat or employing trades.