Swellies - Low Water Slack Sunday....

misterg

misterg

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W-E passage, draft 1.2m (saily boat), never been through before, but familiar with pilotage instructions. Risk averse by nature, but occasionally bold /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Am I daft to consider it?

Andy

edit: cack-handedness!! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
Should be ok FWIW. Where do you intend to end up? Port Dinorwic or Bangor, or are you heading into the Irish Sea? In other words, do you need the tide over Canaervon Bar?

I've found that the Swellies at slack water are no problem, apart from the scrum of boats going in both directions at once. I'd prefer (if it was me) to go through at HW slack just to get the ebb current with me, and the extra depth for safety (qv., "scrum" , above, but then 1.2m draft should be no problem over the Bar at Canaervon. The channel does move around and this was the part I'd worry about. Get the timing wrong, however, and you'll be in a world of trauma.
 
Thanks for that, but I've just realised I've got the direction wrong /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif (not a good omen, but corrected now!). We're coming from Pwllheli to Conwy - The thought is: Low Water slack through Bardsey Sound, and into Straits +/- High Water. Overnight at Caernarfon, or on a buoy in the Straits, then through Swellies, preferably at LW slack, rather than having to wait all day for HW slack, or try it in the dark!

Haven't ruled out going via Holyead, but it's so much further!

Andy
 
So, that's slightly easier. I've still got my 'deep keel' head on, but that's no problem as long as you really arrive at the start of the swellies at slack. Best to time yourself so that at slack water you arrive between the bridges. Minutes matter here. Apart from that, the passage east isn't at all complicated and once past Beaumaris and Puffin island, its straightforward ('scuse pun). Can't advise about getting into Conwy, as last time I did it, we almost rammed the big pillar mark in the dark at 6 knots. It was unlit that, and I'm not sure if its lit now.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Apart from that, the passage east isn't at all complicated and once past Beaumaris and Puffin island, its straightforward ('scuse pun). Can't advise about getting into Conwy, as last time I did it, we almost rammed the big pillar mark in the dark at 6 knots. It was unlit that, and I'm not sure if its lit now.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I can get to Menai Bridge, I'm on familiar(ish) water and will be happy - it's just the thin, bumpy bit between the two bridges that I'm nervous about /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Andy
 
In some ways it might be easier to see where the chanel is at low water particularly if water is low enough to reviel the rock outcrops either side of the narrow chanel between the bridges which is the tricky bit. In yachts I've always done high water but seen low water from a canoe. Draw up a pilot sheet with all the transits marked and where you pick them up and arrive at least 15min early then watch the boats moored close to the start of the swellies. As soon as they stop being firmly tide rode go, should give you about 20min to get through. The only problems I ever had was meeting a 150ft fishing boat doing 10kn the other way and filling the channel, in avioding him I lost the transit line which got the hart fluttering. Not much to be gained by going round as the race of the north end of Holyhead can be as bad or worse than the swellies with wind over tide. Believe the advice about not doing in a strong SW bother erea accross Hells Mouth (aptly named) before Bardsey Sound and Canarvn bar are graveyards in the wrong weather.
 
So, have a good passage plan with transits marked and know what you are looking for. It takes about 10 minutes tops to get through, but the timing must be right. Make sure your engine can cope with the flood tide and against any expected headwind on the day. Its surprisingly un-dramatic once you've done it.
 
HW Sunday 16 38 Menai Bridge.
W- E Passage.
Aim for the Centre of tha Arch on Brtannia Bridge (Starboard one!)
But keep an eye on Nelson!
IE don't go too near to the Mainland side as you approach the Bridge.
Aim for yer Man's statue.
as You leave Plas Newydd on yer Port side.
Cos there are Lobster pots on yer Starboard as You approach the Bridge.
So therefore as You will see the White Cone on the Mainland (starboard) side as You approach Brittania keep it just to the left Centre of the Arch as You enter The Swellies.
No big deal, just a Tip.
Once under Brittania, keep towards the Cone, about 50 yards ( sorry don,t do Metric can do Cables though!) maybe 100, take a look at the South Cardinal.
Aim to keep it slightly to your Starboard quarter.Just off the Bow at 10 past in effect.
There is a white square thinghy on the Menai side at the Mo which is a good aimer.
So aim between that and the Swellie Rock Cardinal.
There is a sticky out bit just off "Price's Point" on yer Starboard side as You approach The Cardinal.
So don't be tempted to tuck in to the Mainland side at that point.
Actually that last bit is rubbish.
At theTime you will want to go through there is plenty of water.
Once past the Cardinal aim for the Centre of Menai Bridge, which clears You of The Platters.
As per Seagreen, it's suprisingly undramatic.
The weirdo bit of the Straits and the Swellies is the Tidal flow/ Current.
Been there done it for 30 years!
Looked at Tide Tables, Almanacs, etc etc .
Then gone out there and Said "Rollocks" that doesn't make sense!
Cos I don't think there is a Definitive.
So back to Common Sense!
I,d be looking at a 12.30 approach to Menai
 
Re: Swellies - Low Water Slack Sunday.... Some numbers

Swellies LW slack is L'pool HW +4. Sunday 13th is neaps so there will be more water under your keel. The only 'shallow spot' is over Cheese Rock some 40 feet NE of the mainland arch of Britannia bridge transitting from its exact centre towards the pyramid It's good to watch your depth sounder as you try to find it! The only other thing that you can hit when you are on a Ralph Morris transit (Anglesey etc Pilot) is to hit Swellie Rock Tail - but you won't as it's neaps. [It's even better fun to sail through the Swellies after LW Slack going NE at LW Springs ... and that can be hairy!]

Sunday 13 April Lpool HW is ~0430 UTC (WXTide Liverpool Alfred-Modified Harmonics); So Swellies LW slack is ~0830 UTC = ~0930 BST. There is almost no slack at that time and the 'tide' changes to ebbing north quickly gathering pace as you go NE to swoosh you out to Puffin so that you can pick up the beginnings of the flow which at Puffin Island is about 2 1/2 hours after Swellies LW slack. This will then get you into Conwy on a rising tide .... Nice /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Note: If you are on a buoy either in Rowen Bay or on the trots at Port Dinorwic you'll have to punch your way up against the ebb - Allow 1 hour from Port Dinorwic to Britannia Bridge and to keep out of the worst of the tide, hug the mainland side using your depth sounder - Shallowest point is the reef off the house opposite Plas Newedd.

I always find Caernarfon Bar more of a challenge than the Swellies - Have you got the new Buoy positions as the channel has moved further north over the winter? ...

http://www.caernarfon-hbr.demon.co.uk/buoys.jpg
 
I've done this trip many times and I've always found that if you get the tide right at Bardsey i.e LW slack, it will sweep you up the coast, over Caernarvon Bar into the Straits and depending on your speed, be slightly early or ready at Plas Newydd to pass through the Swellies at HW slack. It is then a hell of a rush to get into Conwy, better to moor overnight at Beaumaris.

The timing at Bardsey is the important factor. What time do you intend to go through?
 
Personally I would prefer to passage the swellies at HW slack in the dark than LW in daylight. The pilotage markers are easily seen. If you do go for a LW passage pass beneath the Brittania bridge 1 hr before slack, giving yourself a bit of extra water and mitigating the risk of being pinned on some nasty by the young NE going tide.
Conwy is certainly do-able in one go from LW using Puffin sound; you should aim to arrive at the FW bouy Conwy HW-3, there's a good anchorage S of Puffin if you have to wait. If you transit swellies at HW Slack, leave the strait at B6 and steer for Conwy No 1, you will easily clear the bank with 1,2m draft if you maintain 4knts+ and be able to enter the river with a reasonable engine.
 
Thanks to all for the excellent advice. Some more information (times BST):

The full plan is to leave Pwllheli ar ~06:30 Sat to reach Bardsey at 10:30 which is low water Dover-1, as per Ralph Morris. I don't know how critical this timing is, so was trying to hit it within ~30 minutes of the optimum.

I figured on crossing Caernarfon Bar at HW, or a bit before, but had discounted the possibility of reaching the Swellies for HW slack the same day (HW Liverpool is 17:00, so Swellies HW slack ~ 14:50, and I'd want to arrive a bit early) , hence planning to stop just SW of the Swellies overnight. (I also need to drop someone off at Caernarfon).

If we're doing well, then maybe HW slack on Sat is a possibility, I just can't bring myself to rely on a near doubling of boat speed for substantial distances! Also, the boat (a Hunter Channel 323) is new to us, so I've no experience to base passage speeds on yet. Finger in the air says 5 kts; prudence says allow for foul tides, but don't build in too much assistance from fair ones. (Sod's law says something will break, and we'll end up stuck in Pwllheli until next weekend at £30 a night /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif.

I thought I had the latest Caernarfon bar buoy positions (19th? March), but they've been moved again, so thanks for the reminder.

If / when we do get through the Swellies, then I'm happy about the rest of the journey to Conwy until it gets to parking (in the marina this year for the first time).

Thanks,

Andy
 
Something to bear in mind, which I don't think anyone else has mentioned, is that LW slack is not LW. There are still 1.5 - 2 hours to go before the water level is at its lowest. So even at LW slack springs it is arguable that there is sufficient water there for most boats. At neaps there is enough for virtually anything.

It is surprisingly easy to go through at LW, as the rocks that would be a hazard, hidden at HW, are all visible. Always makes you think, though.
 
Your profile says you have a Newbridge Venturer so I assumed a relatively low speed. In your latest boat you should be able maintain a speed of more than 5kts and you should make the Swellies in one go. I make Bardsey LW slack as 10.05 on sat am. 3.5 hours to reach Bardsey is plenty if you keep close into Cilcain Head and Hells Mouth to avoid a contrary tide. You should be able to push thru Bardsey, if slightly early, if you go between the northern rock and the shore line at Braich y Pwll.

You now need some reasonable weather

Good Luck
 
There is a rock, not shown on most charts and pilots right in the middle of the channel at the SW (Britannia Bridge) end. It's called Cheese Rock I don't know the depth but there will be enough water for you, if the water's clear it can look a bit alarming.
 
Dropping someone off at Caernarfon need only take a moment. DO NOT go past the bridge or enter harbour or Dock!

There is a public ramp between the marina entrance & the Royal Welsh clubhouse. It is accessible at all states of the tide. Use big fenders, observe the direction of current & stem it with a ferry glide alongside the ramp at a point where crewman can step ashore. I have used it to drop SWMBO & Daughter-in-law off for shopping trips. if they can easily get ashore without alarm your man could do it in a Mr Blobby suit.

You won't even need to use warps or tie up, just touch & go. If it doesn't work first time, tell everyone what you are doing & have another go. If it takes more than a minute or two I'd be surprised.
 
Gawd! Where to start... Thanks very much, again. (Reply to Vyv, but covers subsequent posts, too)

[ QUOTE ]
LW slack is not LW. There are still 1.5 - 2 hours to go before the water level is at its lowest.

[/ QUOTE ] OK, understood, and thanks for checking.

[ QUOTE ]
you should make the Swellies in one go.

[/ QUOTE ] Now that really would be good /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif We could have a pint in Menai Bridge.

[ QUOTE ]
It's called Cheese Rock

[/ QUOTE ] I had heard of it, and it's on the Menai Straits Pilot / Caernarfon Harbour Master's notes, but not on the Admiralty charts, or (I think) in Ralph Morris' pilot. I think Kawasaki & others allude to its presence above.

[ QUOTE ]
Dropping someone off at Caernarfon need only take a moment.

[/ QUOTE ] - Yep, "touch & go" on the big jetty is what I had planned. If there's the prospect of getting through the Swellies on Sat afternoon, then we'll just shove him onto the jetty and buugger off!

Thanks especially for the detailed pilotage advice for Bardsey. I'll let you know how it goes.

Andy
 
beat me to it, I have those instructions printed out and in my reeds almanac.

Best instructions I have ever found.

p.s. misterg, I have a detailed swellies chart (SC 1464 Menai Strait) if you would like to borrow it, I don't know when you intend to pass through, but I am sure we can meet up, I am often in Pwllheli, more by car lately.. But I need to go probably this weekend to fill the eber tank and nip into Firmhelm.

To be honest, you don't really need the chart, but it is comforting if you like me do not pass through regularly.
 
Use the Ferry ramp, the jetty looks like a death trap!

slipway.jpg
 
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