Survey Results - impartial opinions wanted...

danielbroad

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The story so far:

After an extensive hunt we've finally found a boat design which is ideal for us, there are 2 of these boats for sale in the UK right now but one is sold subject to survey etc.. by someone who put in a higher offer than us.

We've had an offer excepted on the other boat and beat them down a little on the price but not a lot, and had a survey done. On first inspection it was fairly obvious the guy who owns this isn't much of a "DIYer" - he's had big jobs like reupholstering and new injectors / outdrives rebuilt done but has neglected all small jobs like fixing window leaks, replacing a non working tachometer and many many others.

Unfortunately the results of the survey i find somewhat disapointing and if there were many of these boats on the market we'd certainly walk, unfortunately there aren't so i'm considering what my options are.

Here are the things i didn't like in the survey:

<begin>
Hull Shell
The GRP hull shell was examined from the ground, by visual inspection as
well as sounding where possible, with the vessel suspended ashore in a travel
hoist. GRP hull shell at underwater areas and topsides considered to be
exceptably fair and no significant structural damages sighted at topsides
however large areas of stress crazing apparent at the underwater areas being
in way of waterline port and starboard, in way of spray rails and where
transverse frames or bulkheads are bonded internally. We also noted that
repairs have been attempted in various areas however these repairs have not
been successful with stress crazing recurring. We would therefore
recommend that all antifouling paints and any primers be stripped from the
underwater areas, and dye penetrant testing carried out in order to ascertain
the nature and extent of damages to the hull shell, prior to appropriate
measures being taken. We note that this may require repairs/reinforcement at
the interior of the vessel, which can be a difficult and expensive process due
to the vessel being fully lined and fitted-out.

The antifouling was scraped back in several areas port and starboard in order
to allow inspection of the underlying white gelcoat hull finish. Osmotic
blistering was detected in many areas and moisture meter readings taken on
Scale A of the Sovereign Moisture Meter gave readings of up-to 20 at the
underwater areas compared with readings of up-to 2 at the topsides,
indicating a significant absorption of moisture into the laminate. We would
recommend that the gelcoat be fully stripped from the underwater areas using
gelcoat peeler, the underlying laminate be allowed to dry out to acceptable
levels prior to stripped areas being recoated with solvent free epoxy resins,
filled and fared prior to priming and over-painting with antifouling. Currently
average charges for this repair process are around £140 per ft plus VAT plus
any handling expenses.

Structure
The interior of the vessel was fully lined and carrying a substantial amount of
equipment hence very little inspection of structure possible internally. We did
note crazing/cracks at the GRP bonding between plywood floor and hull shell
on the port side at the galley area and given the stress crazing sighted at the
interior of the vessel at the least we recommend that as much equipment be
removed as possible to allow further inspection of structure once opening up
work has taken place in order to fully appreciate the nature and extent of the
damages to the hull shell as stated in the foregoing.

<end>

The osmosis doesn't really bother me - the crazing / cracks internally does! What would you do?

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Nauti Fox

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Errr... walk away.Sorry but it does sound nasty.
Good luck,
Al.

<hr width=100% size=1>No dear,the water goes in the other one.
 

theguvnor

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I`d walk away. I don`t know how big she is but £140 +vat + extras sounds nasty, and you still need to spend heavily just to find out how much more you need to spend. All the ingrediants of financial meltdown without any boating !

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Elza_Skip

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I am not an expert but recently bought a small cruiser- I would walk away

Even if you did consider the crazing not a major concern, any future buyer would want to see the survey and evidence of remedial action.

This sounds like a boat for an expert owner who has the skills to do repairs themselves

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D

Deleted User YDKXO

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'somewhat dissapointing' - understatement of the year! Its going to depend how badly you want this boat. Ordinarily, you'd walk away giving thanks for a competent surveyor. However, if you still want to carry on with this thing, you're going to have to do a more throrough survey which will cost you money and then get estimates for carrying out the repairs.
If I was you and before you go to the expense of further survey work, I'd try to find out what the owner's attitude is going to be to a substantial reduction in your offer. In my experience, if he's been difficult to beat down so far, he's not going to be amenable to a further large reduction in the asking price even when presented with the surveyor's report. Speak to somebody like Osmotech at Hamble Point marina to get a rough idea what the osmosis repair is going to cost. The structural grp repairs are going to be more difficult to estimate but I guess you're talking thousands not hundreds
If the owner does not show a willingness to negotiate a lower price to take account of the repair costs, then you're wasting your time

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Dave_Snelson

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Plague & Avoid spring to mind

The bit about osmosis and peeling the gel coat seem excessive to me. 6 months standing and repairing the blisters usually does the trick.

However, all that aside, the rest of this sounds a nightmare. I don't know what the current owner has been doing to his boat to get stress cracks at major structural points, but this ain't good. In fact its very bad indeed. So much so, that you might not even get insurance for the boat. And there's a good point...show the survey to your insurance company. See what they say. They would probably say the same as me - avoid.

You may also find, if you look closely, that it has little round marks all over it.....

....where other people have been touching it with barge poles!

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KevB

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Point one - crazing in gel coat would be resolved by getting point two resolved. So first part of negotiation would be to reduce the cost of boat by the estimated cost of repair. You actually win here because you get new gel coat at current owners expense.

The internal crazing is a little more worrying and could be connected with the origin of the external crazing. If you are still considering buying the boat IMHO you need to get another survey concentrating on the condition of the stringers and if they are still bonded to the hull.

Both internal and external crazing could originate from a single problem, getting the source problem fixed may be as straight forward as having a bit of fibreglass work done. Getting the gel coat peeled and re applied (paid for by reducing the purchase price) may give you an "as new" looking boat as far as the hull concerned.

If this is the one you want get another survey specifically to check out the internals but first sound out the current owner as to their willingness to pay for repairs by reducing the cost of the boat.

Unless this is a very old "classic" boat with which you would expect to find these problems….. IMHO I'd walk away.


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Wiggo

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OK, so the survey says 'run away' very loudly. What's the boat, why so rare, and why is one a must have for you? (i.e. what else might suit?)

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miket

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I too am intrigued what boat can be so special and in such short supply to stop you from running with all haste?

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EME

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Why Run Away ?

Everybody concurs so far .

Reason for me is that although I have only seen a few surveys ( well about 3 actually), it is difficult to usually interpret what is written in them as they are so mealy-mouthed and non-commital (for legal reasons) on what they find.

If these are actual words, this surveyor is really saying " Run away, there is no price that you can pay for this that will make it a worthwhile buy but you 're going to have spend sheds more money for us to prove that to you''

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danielbroad

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> I too am intrigued what boat can be so special and in such short supply to stop you from running with all haste?

Its probably not special to most people, i've mentioned it before on here - its a Birchwood TS34, here are our top 5 reasons why we like it over the other flybridge competition:

1. Accomodation - 2 real seperate cabins, master cabin has proper island double (i'm 6ft 4 so something with a bulkhead at both ends is not going to work however arranged), guest cabin is not bunks and has proper wardrobe and storage - plus extra double in saloon if needed.
2. Seperate galley not integrated with saloon a la Sealine Statesman
3. 30knot performance
4. Excellent very easy engine access with bags of storage space under saloon floor
5. Good headroom throughout - i can stand up in 90% of the boat unlike Corniche or Sealine.

Obviously if anyone has any suggestions i'm all ears.... (or if there is an unused one in a Marina near you!?) Budget 65k.


<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by danielbroad on 11/10/2004 15:38 (server time).</FONT></P>
 

mainshiptom

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If it was me, I would try and get a quote of putting everthing which you can do yourself ! and then look to see if you still want the boat ?

I am in that postion myself I need to invest in my boat ! Quite a lot of money and the question is should I sell and put the money in to the next one or do I like/prfer this boat and sink the money in to it?


Tom

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BrendanS

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Re: Why Run Away ?

Absolutely. The interior will have to be removed to allow any strengthening to be done (cannot realistically be done from outside), and then refitted. This on top of the remedial work mentioned in the survey is going to cost an absolute bundle.

The remedial work in question being of unknown scale at the moment, as the surveyor points out. To work out how much it's all going to cost, will require actually doing some of the work mentioned, and the boat owner would be barking mad to allow someone to rip out the inside, only to decide it's too expensive to fix, and back out of sale.

Heaven knows how much it would cost in total, but it's going to be a large figure

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Canboria

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A quick search on Google found these.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.boats-for-sale.com/ListManufacturersBoats.asp?clicked=1&Manufacturer=Birchwood&startpage=1&lastpage=0&page=2>here</A>

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Nauti Fox

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Daniel, have you looked at any Carvers?Went and looked at one a couple of weeks ago, lots of headroom and good cabins (this was a 39 at about 80k)Being American design there was alot of space, big windows etc.We decided to restore ours in the end.I know that one is over your budget but there are smaller ones.
Al.

<hr width=100% size=1>No dear,the water goes in the other one.
 
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