Sunseeker Manhattan 60

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kjohnsen

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For quite some time I was thinking about buying a second-hand Fairline Squadron 58 to keep in the Med for holidays or week-ends. While I still think the 58 is a great boat after chartering it, I feel the price differential to a Manhattan 60 is limited and makes the latter an interesting option. Any views? Experiences from Manhattan 60 owners would be highly appreciated; reliability, fuel consumption, servicing costs, sound levels....
 
kjohnsen said:
For quite some time I was thinking about buying a second-hand Fairline Squadron 58 to keep in the Med for holidays or week-ends. While I still think the 58 is a great boat after chartering it, I feel the price differential to a Manhattan 60 is limited and makes the latter an interesting option. Any views? Experiences from Manhattan 60 owners would be highly appreciated; reliability, fuel consumption, servicing costs, sound levels....
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Are you aware that the Squadron 58 is (I believe) 58 feet long but the Manhattan 60 is 65 feet long.

Sunseekers are built to very high standards and if they have been looked after are the perfect boat for the Med.

Sound levels are very low, amongst the best but in the Med you will live outside on the flybridge.

Servicing and fuel costs will be dependant on engine type and size but will be similar no matter what make of vessel.

As a guide my Manhattan 60 (2009) has twin MAN 900hp engines and burns about 230 litres of fuel per hour at about 18 knots

There are loads of good engineers and cleaning people who will look after your boat but will relieve you of loads of money.

Cannot help with costs as I only deal with official agents for engine servicing and they prefer that their charges are not put on public forums.

Best thing for you to do is find the boats on the market in Spain and take a trip and look at some to get a better idea.

If you are considering Mallorca I suggest you contact Steve Hookings of Marina Estrella in Portals (W) 0034 971 677125 (M) 0034 687 911595 as he is Mr Uno for all things Sunseeker and will be aware of all Manhattan 60 vessels on the market and would be able to give good advice on costs etc.
 
Thanks a lot, Doug!

Yes, I am aware about Sunseeker's "conservative" labelling (which means that the 63 Manhattan actually is a 69 if my memory serves me right). That only adds to the attraction in terms of interior space.

I guess the best thing to do is to bring my wife to have a look at some of the boats that are on offer and maybe do a charter before making the final decision.

Actually, I am considering Croatia as my cruising grounds based on my experience from chartering both sailing- and motor yachts over there. In all fairness, I have never tried Mallorca.

Thanks for the link to Mr Uno, could be very useful!
 
If the price diff is quite small then get the sun seeker because it is a clear step up- 65 vs 58 feet isn't trivial. Both nice boats. S58 has become very price attractive in last year and many have euro prices beginning with a 3, as you have no doubt noticed. Some owners asking Gbp 500-600+ are dreaming or hoping to get lucky

I had 2 sq58 and confirm they are quiet. Doug has the sun seeker and confirms that is quiet, so both tick that box

S58 is straightforward as regards maintenance based on my experience of 1000+ hours. Nothing special that would bump the price up. The d12 engines are very reliable

So, none of that helps you choose, because you've picked 2 top quartile boats. If you want comments on a particular s58 that you might be looking at post or pm a link in case I know it. Most are straightforward but one has sunk and been recovered and a couple I know have hit rocks and been repaired. There are 210 sq 58 in existence but perhaps only a quarter of that number of the sunseeker
 
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Thanks a lot, Portofino!

I agree that it would make sense to do a charter first, but would you recommend a boat that has been chartered ith the wear and tear that brings along?
 
Thanks a lot, JFM! You are always helpful from what I can see and we were actually in touch at some point a few years ago.

I chartered Sq 58 Mali Karlo in Croatia last year. She has MAN 800 engines and was nice underway. The family really liked it and you are right, the prices for Sq 58s are becoming very attractive, but I think we would enjoy the extra space of the Manhattan. I read your story about the Sq 78, so I guess you are enjoying the extra space as well:-)
 
Both boats have a great pedigree and either will give a lot of pleasure but there is a definite step up in terms of accommodation with the Sunseeker. The midships master cabin is magnificent and the whole boat feels about 25% bigger.
Tiger Feet is now in Estapona, Spain, I know as I assisted a good pal of mine who runs Theboatbusiness.com to move her the other week from SOF. I understand she is 5/6 years old but having not been slept on much she was virtually like new and had every box ticked on the options list. Having also spent a few hundred hours on Squadron 58,s I felt the Sunseeker was comfortably quieter whilst underway and had a more luxiourious feel. Hydraulic submersible rear platform was a nice touch to launch jet rib.

Good luck I envy you having to choose between two great boats

Cheers

Tetleys
 
kjohnsen said:
Actually, I am considering Croatia as my cruising grounds based on my experience from chartering both sailing- and motor yachts over there.
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wednesday I was in Porto Montenegro, (30nm south of Dubrovnik)
really nice (new) marina, with all accomodation you can wish for
almost exactly as in the brochure or website
for the time being at 'affordable pricing,
and detax diesel available, even for privately owned boats
and daily flights from UK to Tivat in summer iirc (airport is at 10min from marina, Cilipi/Dubrovnik is at 1h30 from the marina)
we 're considering to go there next season as home port, and from there explore the croatian coast

sorry can't give usefull comments on your boat choice,
just one in this case: the bigger the better ! :-)
 
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Hi Bart!

I've been to Montenegro a few times, but never at Porto Montenegro, even though a friend of mine has an apartment there. Does tick several boxes, but do you know anything about the "hassle-factor" when crossing into Croatia? I think the couple from Jersey that entertains us with great stories in MBY about their boating adventures mentioned something about cumbersome procedures, but I could be wrong. Would have been nice to explore Kotor and those other gems in Montenegro. I have never reached further south than Dubrovnik when chartering.
 
Thanks Tetleys!

Sounds like you have exactly the experience I am searching for given your time spent on both boats. Thanks for sharing, my appetite keeps growing! If Tiger Feet is still for sale when I get my act together to look at the boats on offer, I should probably see her.
 
kjohnsen said:
Thanks a lot, Portofino!

I agree that it would make sense to do a charter first, but would you recommend a boat that has been chartered ith the wear and tear that brings along?
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I have not been down recently so did not realise its gone .
As tetlets says " like new" .i would guess a credit to Danny of sunny Yachting who looked after it .
I think it was a v elderly couple thier 70' s and they' hired a skipper.
I think Its all down to condition -read how well looked after and maintained ,not necessary age .
Carpets can be changed at the start of the season etc
From personal experiance with SS albeit a small one same rules apply .Folks think mine as new cos it's looked after professionally .even though I will not see it / use it from mid Oct to April ,it's cleaned polished systems run up every 2 weeks - heated in the French winter etc .
There are many younger 4-5 y olds that soon look dreadful after few seasons of well owner trying to do it themselves or
Just basic cheapo build quality in the sun .If possible try an organise avisit to the factory ,they bring back P-ex,s to " refinish" -new carpets curtains, bedding, polish,antifoul, engine, service -end up like new
 
DougH said:
If you are considering Mallorca I suggest you contact Steve Hookings of Marina Estrella in Portals (W) 0034 971 677125 (M) 0034 687 911595 as he is Mr Uno for all things Sunseeker and will be aware of all Manhattan 60 vessels on the market and would be able to give good advice on costs etc.
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I think it was Steve that I bumped into earlier in the year - what a nice guy.
We spent about an hour just chatting on the back of our boat.
Definitely a man who knows his market - and thats from me (who owns a Princess)
 
kjohnsen said:
Actually, I am considering Croatia as my cruising grounds based on my experience from chartering both sailing- and motor yachts over there. In all fairness, I have never tried Mallorca.
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I spent 5yrs based in Mallorca before selling my boat there and buying another one in Croatia 3yrs ago. Croatia is a superb cruising area and I am not missing Mallorca other than the better flight connections. We are based in Marina Frapa near Split which is an excellent location being only 30mins from Split airport and right in the middle of the Dalmatian island chain.
Sorry to DougH for saying this but I don't like the Man 60 myself. IMHO, the galley down/forward arrangement doesn't work so well in the Med because you're eating outside in the cockpit and on the flybridge so often and the round seating near the helm seems a bit useless. Just FYI, we're currently looking at upgrading our Ferretti 53 to something bigger than 60ft and we've been looking at the Ferretti 630 and the Princess 67 ourselves which are both around the same price level at the Man 60 although maybe a couple of years older
 
BartW said:
wednesday I was in Porto Montenegro, (30nm south of Dubrovnik)
really nice (new) marina, with all accomodation you can wish for
almost exactly as in the brochure or website
for the time being at 'affordable pricing,
and detax diesel available, even for privately owned boats
and daily flights from UK to Tivat in summer iirc (airport is at 10min from marina, Cilipi/Dubrovnik is at 1h30 from the marina)
we 're considering to go there next season as home port, and from there explore the croatian coast
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We might see you there in a season or 2, Bart! What does diesel cost presently? Are you convinced that there are enough skilled maintenance companies there to look after your boat?
 
Deleted User said:
We might see you there in a season or 2, Bart! What does diesel cost presently? Are you convinced that there are enough skilled maintenance companies there to look after your boat?
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This Summer diesel was 0.83 now its 0.79

For lift out, There is one big yard in Montenegro, ant there are a few in Split / sibenic area,
there is a chandler / engine service in the marina,

And for most maintenance I fly someone in from home

There are many different cleaning or crewing services available in the marina, i'll try to get a crew / chef via my friends in Cavtat,
 
BartW said:
This Summer diesel was 0.83 now its 0.79

For lift out, There is one big yard in Montenegro, ant there are a few in Split / sibenic area,
there is a chandler / engine service in the marina,

And for most maintenance I fly someone in from home

There are many different cleaning or crewing services available in the marina, i'll try to get a crew / chef via my friends in Cavtat,
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Ooh thats cheap diesel. Yup plenty of yards in Split/Sibenik area but too far away from Montenegro for minor repairs. Montenegro would be better place for overwintering as there are all year flights to Dubrovnik, at least for us, whereas flights to Split stop in October. My big concern with Montenegro is getting complex maintenance work done like engine repairs/servicing which is why I was interested if there were any reputable maintenance companies in Porto Montenegro
 
Deleted User said:
Ooh thats cheap diesel. Yup plenty of yards in Split/Sibenik area but too far away from Montenegro for minor repairs. Montenegro would be better place for overwintering as there are all year flights to Dubrovnik, at least for us, whereas flights to Split stop in October. My big concern with Montenegro is getting complex maintenance work done like engine repairs/servicing which is why I was interested if there were any reputable maintenance companies in Porto Montenegro
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Maintenance - Mike
A plus for a P67 - I fear
If you were to get one with MTUs (I think most were fitted with MTUs) the engine maintenance schedule is every 2 years - if you use the correct oils.
And dead easy to do an oil change - the installation is fitted with oil pump out system.
I do my own servicing and the MTUs are quicker to do than the Volvo D12s that we had on the old boat.
Mind you any boat with MTU CR2000s would have the same advantage.

Just a little observation!!!
 
Hurricane said:
Maintenance - Mike
A plus for a P67 - I fear
If you were to get one with MTUs (I think most were fitted with MTUs) the engine maintenance schedule is every 2 years - if you use the correct oils.
And dead easy to do an oil change - the installation is fitted with oil pump out system.
I do my own servicing and the MTUs are quicker to do than the Volvo D12s that we had on the old boat.
Mind you any boat with MTU CR2000s would have the same advantage.

Just a little observation!!!
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Mike, what do you know about MTU 8V2000M92 engines?
 
Deleted User said:
Mike, what do you know about MTU 8V2000M92 engines?
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As far as I know, ours are the essentially the same as those engines - ours are, in fact, the later M93
I don't remember there being any significant difference between the M92 and the M93.
Fairly obviously, the 8V means that they are V8s
The 2000 means that they are part of the CR2000 range of engines
(it is actually just over 2 litres per cylinder - I think thats where the 2000 bit comes from)
And I believe that the M number is the model number.
The engine design is modular - ie they make V8, V10, V12 and V16 versions of the same engine
Individual cylinder heads etc.
The V8 has twin turbos - the others have three
The first turbo runs from the time the engine starts - the others switch in when required.

I'm, certainly, very pleased with mine.

I'm sure that the parts will be readily available.
In fact, on supply of parts (directly from MTU in the UK) has been professional and not expensive.
 
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