sunseeker malibu 47, mans or Sunseeker 46 camargue, detroits

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epervier

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Asking sunseeker owners or for that matter anyone who has knowledge/experience of, either of these two, which is the better buy?
Main criteria is accommodation, and running costs, my buget is 100k which limits the age of the boat to, "old" 1990/93, it's a bit like buying a rolls royce, when new prohibitive,15-20 years down the road very affordable,
I've had the hots for sunseekers ever since first looking round one at earls court back in 1976, but my question is, can you live with them? or is it all badge marketing and hype?
even an older model seems to still have that certain "je ne sais quoi", but I guess that's Don Shead's design giving them a classic undated look.
your input greatfully received,

thanks,

David.
 
Good clean styling i think at that time.

I have no direct exp but hear from expert boat testers that the Detroits are very heavy drinkers which would lead me to look at other motors.
 
would second tcm's view if they are the two strokes, drink fuel, mans more expensive to service but better motor mind you the detroits sound the business. 46 camargue the better boat and slightly better fit n' finish
 
No idea about the Malibu.

I looked at the Camargue 46 about 8 years ago. The separate stern cabin layout is, in my opinion, a bit of a pain, although, if you have kids, it is somewhere to get them out of the way. Does allow the engines to be placed further forward to give the boat better balance.

Detroits are two-strokes and thirsty, but they do push the boat along quite quickly. Not the simple engines you would expect from a two-stroke, because they have a complex induction supercharging system, but I am told they are no more expensive to service than a conventional four stroke diesel. They have a reputation for being reliable, so long as they are serviced properly. Brokers advise to avoid them like the plague where there is an alternative engine, because they make the boat difficult to sell.

Have you considered the Mustique 42 (1993-1996)? Similar price, perhaps slightly higher. The interior is more modern and it has the aft cabin in the usual place. These you can get with CAT 3208 engines (or Detroits, or Volvos). The Cat is, to my mind, better and more serviceable and is more economical. The interior space is not that much different. Compie1 has a 1993 Mustique with CATs and I am sure he would be happy to discuss it with you.

Can you live with a Sunseeker? Depends on your needs. Not as much interior space as other boats of similar size because of the slim hull, but that gives a gain in performance and seakeeping. Always a compromise. In my opinion, they feel much more opulent - like a Jag compared with a Ford. I have covered many thousands of happy miles in a Camargue 47 and I have spent in total over a year living and cruising on it. For SWMBO and I, very comfortable. For four people, quite comfortable. For six, feels crowded. I am currently looking for another.
 
Thank you very much for your insight to the Carmargue, unfortunately, it seems all the older ones have only two choices of engine, detroits or detroits! perhaps the reason they are within my smaller budget.
My budget is absolutely firm, as I have no intention of taking up any kind of loan to buy, what is effectively a plaything, well aware of, after thirty plus years of boat owning,it is likened to standing on a pontoon ripping up twenty pound notes, and smiling while doing so.

At present the mustique is out of reach I've seen only one at 138k well over what I can afford, another option is to widen my criteria and lower my goals, I've looked at the sunseeker travado 40's and these appear to be well within reach, ranging from 50-95k for older models, I still wonder at the huge price swing for the same boat model.
but what do I know.
has sunseeker ever produced a "lemon"?
answers on a postcard please to

thenutterwholivesinfrance.com
 
I don't know if Sunseeker has ever produced a lemon but I did read through [October 2006] MBY's used boat test of a Fairline Targa 29, Doral Prestancia and Bavaria 300 and thought I'd be happy to put my Portofino 31 up against any of them and be confident of the outcome on looks, performance and creature comforts.

But then I am hopelessly biased. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I'm afraid I have to side with you, I've always thought that sunseeker make stunningly beautiful boats, but now seem to cater only for lottery winners,and the mega rich, even their baby in the range is somewhere in the order of 1/4 million pounds
 
Chavseeker

Hm. Bit of balance needed here. With bruummy Mansell a prominent customer, cream leather a standard fit, these have an essex image. Excellent storage for wine glasses, and more wine glasses, but otherwise a bit storage-free, spindly cleats, noisy exhausts. The name "sunseeker" is easily the best bit. To buy a new one, roll up slightly drunk at the boat show and be rude and leery to the sales assistants and staff. They love it cos you are fitting their stereotypical customer profile, in the same way as their boats fit a sort of stereotypical majorca-holidaymaker who's done well. Sorry, i mean "done good".
 
Re: Chavseeker

being a tad cynical towards a leading british boat builder and their clients?
and people who live in glass houses shouldn't through.......

leopard23.jpg


internal view of a Leopard 23,
surprize, surprize, whine glasses.
yes I spelt it the right way. LOL.
 
Re: Chavseeker

Did you see this one?
Looks like a huge amount of boat for the money. Potential money pit I suppose if it has problems.
Don't forget to buy a Sunseeker keyring, jacket and cap to impress your friends /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Edit... was a reply to dbrown not TCM..
 
Re: Chavseeker

er yeah, tho lep and others of that size also have dual generators, dual aircon units, oversized cleats, Miele domestics not Electrolux, decent wide-plank teak instad of same-again materal from a 40-footer, deck locker capacity big enough to sit inside - none of which is standard even in a squeaker 105 let alone a 75. Latest models seem built for non-boaties by non-boaties. They are over-reaching themselves at larger sizes and much small-boat thinking is in evidence.

imho
 
I think you are right, the Camargue 46 only comes with Detroits.
However, with a quick look, I have come up with 12 Mustiques in Europe at prices ranging from £97k to £150k and I am allowing for duplicate adverts. The £97k one has Detroits and has been previously advertised elsewhere at £85k.

Sunseeker are advertising a 1994 Mustique for £119,500 asking and, if they still have it, I know they will come down on that. Last I heard, it was in Beaulieu. They also have a 1996 in Spain advertised for £116,300 asking. Both have CATs. There was a tatty one (1995 I think) with CATs in Puerto Banus for £110k asking.

There were also two in Portugal which I saw in the Spring, 1995 and 1996 with CATs, at £125k asking. They may have been sold.

Haven't had time to do a proper search - I'm off for a few days tomorrow to look at boats. You may not fancy a Mustique, but the price is not as high as you think.
 
Re: Scumsneaker

I am sure that your Leopard is wonderful and that no other boat can approach it in function, style and the image you want to portray of yourself (whatever that is).

I only have experience of smaller boats than yours, and I would agree about the cleat size and lack of storage on some models. I would add many other functional design faults. I still like the Sunseeker, though, even if it does not match the perfection of a Leopard.

However, if I were to go for a bigger boat, I doubt that it would be either a Leopard or a Sunseeker, in spite of a recommendation from someone with such obviously impeccable taste as yourself.

Incidentally, a yottie friend suggested that Sunseekers were the type of boat owned by scrap metal merchants. When he is around, we proudly wear T-shirts emblazoned with SMMYC - Scrap Metal Merchants Yacht Club. I can get you a couple if you like.
 
oh dear

hm, I thought were better than to make a cheap post like that. I didn't turn this to my choice of boat, didn't say mine was perfect. But i have checked out the newer sunseekers, in detail, many times and they have failings, and i pointed them out.

The reason i mentioned the "glassses storage" was that a s'sekr skipper in the med iwas talking with complained that (amongst other problems) he had loads of storage for glasses and none for any else. The reason for this is the swirling circular furniture/spatial designs which steals internal storage space and although fora propective non-boaty owner it feels swish - it is less practical. instead of the Leopard (very minor brand) check out the larger ferrettis, miles aheadin manyrespects than sunseeker with hull windows, stabilisers and proper crew accoodationthat can be lived inrather than (as in even a 105)merely snoozed in now and again - but isht inside the engine room so gawd knows how hot it will be. None boaty design see?

oh, and the lep and some others (not sunseker) are customisable to have loads or zero glasses storage. The glasses provided in the lep, as standard, are crystal, £80 a throw , six each for 12 people. In addition, there are the standard "branded" glasses for ordinary useage too - like the sunseekers top line stuff.
 
Re: oh dear

[ QUOTE ]
To buy a new one, roll up slightly drunk at the boat show and be rude and leery to the sales assistants and staff. They love it cos you are fitting their stereotypical customer profile, in the same way as their boats fit a sort of stereotypical majorca-holidaymaker who's done well. Sorry, i mean "done good".


[/ QUOTE ] I thought I was responding to a cheap post with a cheap post. Never mind.

Being more serious, I agree with much of what you say. The new Sunseekers have very poor functional design. A few years ago, I nearly went for a new Camargue 44, decided it was a floating sunbed, and went for a Camargue 47.

There are many, many poor detail design features on Sunseekers, and I agree that it seems as if the designers have never used a boat in anger, but I have found many problems with other boats, too. You seem to set a lot of store by the glasses (couldn't resist that last poke, could you) - that's irrelevant to me (I don't drink), but my Sealine had considerably more glass space than my larger Sunseeker.

I suspect that if I used a Leopard, I would also find problems. The one time, in more affluent days, when I briefly considered a larger boat, it was actually a Mangusta, not a Leopard. Everyone to his own, but snide comments about people who buy other makes are not helpful.

Now I'm off to Majorca to look for another Sunseeker.
 
Re: Chavseeker

Mine not only has an essex image. It even has essex boatyards stickers all over it - if anyone knows how to get these off without demolishing the whole boat I should be eternally grateful. Not, ahem, you understand, because I want to change the image.

SWMBO told me she had mentioned to a friend that I had sold my sail boat and bought the sunseeker. The friend said: "That's one of the phallic ones isn't it?"
 
Re: oh dear

You couldl be a little less touchy? - the passage te was a dig at some of the sniffy sqeaker staff, not at their clients. Benjenbav's post sees that this is in jest. In any event, you'll need glasses for drinkingnon-alcoholic drinks.

Anyway never mind. "The Fat Lady" - is that the of your current sunseeker? Um nice...
 
Re: oh dear

I'm still here - couldn't resist another peep.

Sorry if I appear touchy. Today has been a bit of a strain.

"La Donna Grassa" - sounds better than The Fat Lady, and even Italians understand.
 
tcm/thefatlady

Reading through this thread from posting it I think I shouldn't have bothered if it was going to stir up this much emotion,

My reply was only in jest to tcm's blatant inflammatory remark of purchasing a Sunseeker;-Quote,


" To buy a new one, roll up slightly drunk at the boat show and be rude and leery to the sales assistants and staff. They love it cos you are fitting their stereotypical customer profile, in the same way as their boats fit a sort of stereotypical majorca-holidaymaker who's done well. Sorry, i mean "done good"

End quote


Which I interpreted as " I have a Leopard 23 and am superior to someone who buys a sunseeker"

I've never been to Mallorca, am an ex-alcoholic, and hail from The New Forest, living in France, plainly not a stereotypical sunseeker client.

It may have slipped your notice but a leopard23 is in the region of about a million pounds even at second user prices, why bother to make digs at the smaller boat owner,it smacks of snobbery,my budget is about 10% of a leopard23
All I asked for was, information on this forum, not to be ridiculed.

my sincere apologies to you both for starting this.

I noted that tcm has changed his profile from leopard 23 to various since I lasted looked, perhaps thinking of buying Paul Allen's "Octopus"?
 
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