Sunsail Flotilla

[Victoria Sponge]

Unlike the Sunscape/Seafarer Flotillas that we have done, it appears that Sunsail lead crews don't wait until everyone has departed safely.

The lead crew had already departed when one of the yachts in their flotilla prepared to leave. They released their two stern lines and the helm motored forward. Unfortunately, they were still attached to the lazy line!

Well, what a commotion! The boat twisted round, the wind caught it, the restaurant staff came running and were shouting out. The helm shouted at the crew, the crew shouted at the helm......

It really was quite entertaining! Thankfully, they managed to sort themselves out and all was well.

I thoroughly recommend Sunscape and Seafarer lead crews. They are brilliant!

 

[Whitelighter]

Unless they have two lead boats, what happens at the other end?

Eventually, you have to do something on your own - be it entering or leaving the port. Generally I would have thought entering a new port the harder since, by logic, apart from day one you have done it at least once before.

I have always felt that lead crews should, er, lead and make sure the next port is ready, has space etc for the flotilla. Not hang at the back to make sure you can get off the dock - if you cant even achieve that then maybe you're on the wrong holiday.

For balance, I have always found Sunsail excellent and very professional. Cant comment on the two companies you mention as I haven't sailed with them (have you with Sunsail I wonder?)

 

[The engineer]

That is the chore of being a lead crew. You do leave last and then motor sail like hell to the next port whilst the flotilla stops for lunch a swim etc. You are then there to receive the incoming boats.

 

[Victoria Sponge]

Unless they have two lead boats, what happens at the other end?

Eventually, you have to do something on your own - be it entering or leaving the port. Generally I would have thought entering a new port the harder since, by logic, apart from day one you have done it at least once before.

I have always felt that lead crews should, er, lead and make sure the next port is ready, has space etc for the flotilla. Not hang at the back to make sure you can get off the dock - if you cant even achieve that then maybe you're on the wrong holiday.

For balance, I have always found Sunsail excellent and very professional. Cant comment on the two companies you mention as I haven't sailed with them (have you with Sunsail I wonder?)

The companies I mention leave last and motor like heck to get to the next destination first.

I haven't sailed with Sunsail, I was just reporting what I saw.

 

[prv]

Unless they have two lead boats, what happens at the other end?

The lead crew are also there waiting. The stops are only ever a very gentle sailing distance apart, so there's plenty of time for the lead crew to see the last boat off and then motor (never seen 'em sail ) to the next port in time to help the first one in.

I have always felt that lead crews should, er, lead and make sure the next port is ready, has space etc for the flotilla. Not hang at the back to make sure you can get off the dock - if you cant even achieve that then maybe you're on the wrong holiday.

Part of the appeal of Sunsail flotillas has always been their accessibility to complete sailing numpties. Minimum required experience is for someone (invariably the father of the family) to have spent three mornings on a "dayboat" (retired obsolete flotilla yacht) at one of their resorts the previous week. The company is hardly likely to raise the bar and reduce the number of potential customers.

Crews needing detailed instruction, or even hands-on assistance, to moor or anchor is not at all uncommon.

Pete

 

[fireball]

Neilson lead crew always saw their boats off and gave a rough time to get into the next port - allowing them time to get in first - sometimes they even showed us a good stop off point for lunch ...

Yes we can berth and depart - but it's so much nicer when there is shore crew ... I'm suprised every port doesn't have some!

 

[mjcoon]

Neilson lead crew always saw their boats off and gave a rough time to get into the next port - allowing them time to get in first - sometimes they even showed us a good stop off point for lunch ...

Yes we can berth and depart - but it's so much nicer when there is shore crew ... I'm suprised every port doesn't have some!

Nothing to do with flotilla, I saw a yacht approaching a quay and they were evidently pleased to see someone preparing to take their lines. I was standing behind this chap and wondered how to signal to them that he was utterly drunk and they should not trust him at all!

As you can see from my list at http://www.mjcoon.plus.com/page38.htm we have been with numerous flotilla companies. As has been said the leaders usually stay behind until all customer boats have left each port, especially in the first few days. But of course if someone dallies eventually they have to head off to assist the majority at the next port. It's a tricky judgement which depends on the leader's assesment at the time rather than which company they are with.

Mike.

 

[jimbaerselman]

It is common for a charter crew "on flotilla" to ask for a day or six of "free sailing". The lead crew will, by then, be in a good position to judge their ablity to cope with likely circumstances.

I've seen many much worse situations than the one described among both bareboat charterers and boat owners. So I don't see what the basis is for the implied criticism of a Sunsail flotilla leader.

I have no connection with Sunsail, apart from the fact that, years back, my company was in competition with them.

 

[telford_mike]

"i've learned so much from my mistakes, I think I'll go and make some more".

Whilst I'm not the skipper mentioned by the OP, I might as well be. I've committed just about every conceivable yottie cock-up over the years. Severing the windlass control cable whilst mooring in Kioni is probably the best.

Off to the Ionian again on Sunday, so if you see a Beneteau 343 in Sunsail livery having trouble in any of the usual harbours, don't be alarmed, it's just me doing a bit of learning.

Don't get me wrong, I have all the relevant bits of paper from the RYA, but there's nothing like a boat, a crew and some water to provide something unexpected.

Hardly surprising that I notice lots of other skippers having learning experiences too

 

[Victoria Sponge]

Yes, of course we all make mistakes, it's how we learn! I was just commenting on what I saw and the fact that the flotilla crew that we have sailed with never left until all the boats had departed safely. Surely you might as well bareboat if the lead crew don't look out for you.

 

[kaptainkrunchie]

Sunsail also have brilliant lead crews!! (I am not associated with Sunsail in any way but am a professional sailor in the Gocek/ Fethiye area.I actually refuse to work for them)

This year's lead crew in Gocek are particularly dedicated.

A few weeks ago their flotilla had a large contingent of French sailor with limited spoken English. The flotilla leader spent most of his previous evening and early morning learning sufficient sailing terms to deliver his morning briefing in French. He also recruited a French friend to give them mooring instructions when they arrived in Fethiye.

Last week, I sat up with the same skipper for most of the night whilst he listened to his VHF for news of one of his clients who, despite instructions to the contrary and not having night-sailing insurance, had decided to do a night sail from Butterfly Valley to Kapi Creek!! Company policy forbade him from giving this sailing numptie a bollixing.

Over the past 12 years working in the area, I have seen lead crews from all the flotillas - some good, some bad and some diabolical. I cannot remember ANY lead crew having a policy of being last off the quay as some clients wish to stay and sunbathe all day and then make a beeline for their destination at the last minute.

I will never understand how Sunsail (and maybe some others) manage to recruit any Flotilla or bareboat skippers based on the meagre wages and poor conditions offered

 

[Victoria Sponge]

Sunsail also have brilliant lead crews!! (I am not associated with Sunsail in any way but am a professional sailor in the Gocek/ Fethiye area.I actually refuse to work for them)

This year's lead crew in Gocek are particularly dedicated.

A few weeks ago their flotilla had a large contingent of French sailor with limited spoken English. The flotilla leader spent most of his previous evening and early morning learning sufficient sailing terms to deliver his morning briefing in French. He also recruited a French friend to give them mooring instructions when they arrived in Fethiye.

Last week, I sat up with the same skipper for most of the night whilst he listened to his VHF for news of one of his clients who, despite instructions to the contrary and not having night-sailing insurance, had decided to do a night sail from Butterfly Valley to Kapi Creek!! Company policy forbade him from giving this sailing numptie a bollixing.

Over the past 12 years working in the area, I have seen lead crews from all the flotillas - some good, some bad and some diabolical. I cannot remember ANY lead crew having a policy of being last off the quay as some clients wish to stay and sunbathe all day and then make a beeline for their destination at the last minute.

I will never understand how Sunsail (and maybe some others) manage to recruit any Flotilla or bareboat skippers based on the meagre wages and poor conditions offered

Some would say that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys, although I couldn't possibly comment.

 

[Alfie168]

Yes, of course we all make mistakes, it's how we learn! I was just commenting on what I saw and the fact that the flotilla crew that we have sailed with never left until all the boats had departed safely. Surely you might as well bareboat if the lead crew don't look out for you.

Thats a curious take on things...I've only done one flotilla with the YCA way back in 1987. We were repeatedly warned by 'those who know' that YCA would have us all sailing/motoring line astern the entire fortnight and they were strict and we'd feel very constrained. In practice once the lead crew had seen us leave Vasiliki and wander over to Fiskardo they just said "We meet up every three days for a briefing, pair up and look out for each other, but if you need us meantime, then call us up and we'l get to you".....so within limits it was almost bareboating, and very enjoyable too.

Our flotilla skipper was Australian and quite laid back, which I'm sure helped. It was a great way to run the flotilla IMHO, and nobody got into trouble. We were able to range a fair distance as well.

Tim

 

[prv]

Surely you might as well bareboat if the lead crew don't look out for you.

We did a Sunsail flotilla as a family through most of my teenage years. We didn't need "looking out for" - mum and dad had plenty of yacht experience and my brother and I sailed dinghies - but chose to do flotillas for the social aspect. We did charter bareboat one year, and found it a bit dull without other families in the evenings.

Pete

 

[Victoria Sponge]

The lead crew we've sailed with were more than happy for you to go off on your own once they had ascertained your competence.

For those who were less confident the lead crew were always there with the main flotilla at the start and finish of every passage, to help with the anchoring and lines.

I'm surprised that a boat was left by the main flotilla and the lead crew, especially as this was their first day out of port.

Yes, I know that lots of people do flotillas for the social side, but many other people do need the support of the lead crew, particularly at the start of their holiday.

 

[kaptainkrunchie]

Some would say that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys, although I couldn't possibly comment.

Then perhaps you shouldn't

 

[Victoria Sponge]

Then perhaps you shouldn't

I didn't.

 

[Supine Being]

Talking to an crew member from a rival holiday company, he reckoned that crews from all the companies were pretty good on the whole, although Sunsail crews tended to be a little demotivated and unhappy due to the hard regime that they tended to operate under. He reckoned other crews had more leeway in which to work. I also understand that SS are pretty tight when it comes to shelling out for repairs and replacements.

 

[prv]

Yes, I know that lots of people do flotillas for the social side, but many other people do need the support of the lead crew, particularly at the start of their holiday.

Oh yes, absolutely. There was one boat one year that had the lead skipper come and put their anchor down for them every time. Another time when the lead boat was delayed (sorting out the theft of the anchor off the bow of one of the flotilla overnight!) and we were the only boat willing to moor up without assistance while the others circled outside waiting.

(On the latter occasion, once we were in my mum went and took over the lead skipper's usual role on the quayside, and got most of the fleet neatly moored up before the lead boat arrived )

We've also seen the classic "we had to tack up this channel last year, so we'll tack up it this year too" despite the wind being in the opposite direction

Pete

 

[Alfie168]

We only had one idiot on the flotilla I sailed on...no not me He was a plump bombastic sort with a beard. When a number of us landed at a small harbour (can't remember which one but think it was on Ithaca) we rather overwhelmed the poor taverna owner who was struggling to cope with the orders, and things were taking...lets say..longer that usual. This feller starts stamping his feet and being insulting to the poor old waiter who was doing his best.....and eventually my mate and I decided we'd heard enough, so we asked him outside (I think he thought we were going to beat him up) and just explained a few things to him politely, and he calmed down a bit.

SWMBO was ready to stab him though...she's less understanding than me

Tim