Sun tan or sun burn( Boaty medical)

[pcatterall]

Lots of bronzy looking peoples around here which got me thinking.

If you 'work up a tan' gradually and over a long time this should ensure that you can stay out in the sun without burning.

Does this protect you against the harmfull long term effects like skin cancer.

Or put another way, is it sun TAN which is harmefull or sun BURN?

I have suffered a bit from too much sun ( Middle east land surveyor) especially on my head ( hats were for soffties!!) I must have been a bit thin on top even in those days! So its hat on all the time now.

 

[John the kiwi]

New Zealand doesnt have the highest air temperatures in the world by any means but has extreme UV thanks to the hole in the Ozone layer and and clear southern ocean airs.
At times you can go from white to sunburned in under 10 minutes! Summer visitors from the hazy, polluted Northern hemisphere often get caught out as the air temperatures are only comparable to "back home". My German brother-in-law ignored family advice to cover up at the beach as he maintained it wasn't as hot as Germany where he could sunbathe all day! He paid the price with extreme sunburn and now realises the benefits of the air pollution over Europe!

I am a kiwi of British immigrant parents so fair skinned but not a "ginga". As a kid we didn't have sun screen and regularly got burned to the point of skin peeling off. Honestly, my parents really did know any better so cant be blamed.
As I write this i am recovering from having a number of dubious "spots" removed (surgically )from my skin.
This at age 54 is 3rd round of spot removal i have enjoyed in the last few years. Fortunately all the biopsies to date have shown said spots to be benign.Touch wood.

Now a lot of kiwis my age are paying the ultimate price with NZ deaths from skin cancers being very high.
We older wiser kiwis all know now that any sun exposure that causes a change in skin colour is a result of UV damage and should be avoided. The effect is cumulative and irreversible.
I use heaps of much hated sunscreen in summer and wear shirts and hats except when actually swimming and seek shade whenever possible.
Yachting means you must be especially vigilant as you get burned by the UV reflection from the beautiful and picturesque seawater sparkling in the sunshine!
In short, to answer your question, the only difference between "tan" and "burn" is the degree of damage to your skin!

View attachment 33668

Nigella is seen here protecting her skin while swimming at Australia's Bondi Beach.
This is a better look than being tanned at 25, wrinkled prune at 45 and dead from skin cancer at 55!

Cheers

 

[vyv_cox]

Not in any way contradicting what John tK says, I have experienced the power of NZ sunshine myself, although nowhere near as badly as his relative. UK experts pretty much support what he says regarding sun tan, contending that it is a form of damage.

However, all my life I have enjoyed becoming tanned and see tanning as the body's natural defence to exposure to sunshine. Again, the experts disagree with me. Here in Greece almost everybody is brown and few seem to use oils and potions to any major extent. Several Brits nearby have been working on their boats throughout the day for the past few weeks, wearing only shorts (all male!). I use creams in the early part of the season but not later on, although I almost never lie in the sun and if I do I limit the time of exposure. I am a long way past 55 years old, obviously wrinkled, but probably little worse than I would have been if I was lily white.

My view is that fat is never attractive, but brown fat looks better than white.

 

[prv]

My view is that fat is never attractive, but brown fat looks better than white.

That's my principle too. Sadly, spending days like today in a windowless airconditioned office makes it tricky to achieve.

(As an aside, I carry factor 50 in the medical stores on board, as serious sunburn is a medical issue.)

Pete

 

[alant]

Lots of bronzy looking peoples around here which got me thinking.

If you 'work up a tan' gradually and over a long time this should ensure that you can stay out in the sun without burning.

Does this protect you against the harmfull long term effects like skin cancer.

Or put another way, is it sun TAN which is harmefull or sun BURN?

I have suffered a bit from too much sun ( Middle east land surveyor) especially on my head ( hats were for soffties!!) I must have been a bit thin on top even in those days! So its hat on all the time now.

When I got some bits cut out of my back last year, the consultant skin specialist was adamant, that 'any' colour caused by sun, was damaging & potentially cancerous.

 

[VO5]

Sunbathing to obtain an all round tan, is what you might call a skill.
Many who suddenly find themselves in blazing sunshine mistakenly believe a sun tan can be obtained in a day or two of lying there like beached whales getting redder and redder and redder still !
The trick is to start early in the season and to take the sun in short bursts daily and slowly building up the colour without flaring red (which is painful) or peeling.
What I find works best is 20 mins daily for the first week
25 minutes for the second.
Half an hour for the third.
45 mins for the fourth.
Then one hour daily, but never at midday.
And then to one hour and a half, and then progressively to two hours and then eventually all day.

 

[John.edwards]

I am with John the Kiwi and Alant's specialist on this. I always use factor 30 or long sleeves/pants in the sun (South Australia is pretty sunny) when sailing. I am a toxicologist and use human cosmetic reduction skin in my research. tanned skin is damaged skin.

 

[Lakesailor]

The trick is to start early in the season and to take the sun in short bursts daily and slowly building up the colour without flaring red (which is painful) or peeling.
What I find works best is 20 mins daily for the first week
25 minutes for the second.
Half an hour for the third.
45 mins for the fourth.
Then one hour daily, but never at midday.
And then to one hour and a half, and then progressively to two hours and then eventually all day.

That looks like about 8 weeks of sunshine. Most of us are the UK, you know.

 

[prv]

tanned skin is damaged skin.

May be technically true, but at the sort of "doses" most people in the UK experience, it's not generally a problem.

Appreciate that things are different elsewhere in the world.

Pete

 

[aquaplane]

I can't find factor 4 anymore. 4 or 5 days on factor 4 avoiding the worst of the mid day sun get's a tan going.

A few more days on factor 2 avoiding the mid day sun and I was OK. The main point was not to get sunburn.

When I'm sailing I wear a big hat and factor 15 on my face/neck but the rest of me is covered up in this country, last W/E excepted.

We don't get the sun to turn folk brown,leathery and cancerous that you see elsewhere I would think again if we did.

 

[huldah]

We need sensible sun exposure to help protect us from a number of health problems. There is evidence that MS increases the farther north one lives, both in Europe and North America. The Bristol children study has shown that it is those children who spend most time indoors, not those doing close work, who are suffering from myopia. The immune system needs vitamin D.

The more frightened people get, the more sun cream is sold. Could there be a connection?

 

[lustyd]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/jan/22/sharp-rise-vitamin-a-deficiency

 

[grumpy_o_g]

We need sensible sun exposure to help protect us from a number of health problems. There is evidence that MS increases the farther north one lives, both in Europe and North America. The Bristol children study has shown that it is those children who spend most time indoors, not those doing close work, who are suffering from myopia. The immune system needs vitamin D.

The more frightened people get, the more sun cream is sold. Could there be a connection?

I think there's quite possibly truth in that - though I have absolutely no data to back that up - but remember that we hardly go outside or even expose ourselves to fresh air compared to earlier generations. Cars and buildings are air-conditioned, even modern houses are very well insulated and have the minimum ventilation permissible quite often. We drive to supermarkets, shopping malls and big DIY stores instead of walking along the high street or even up to the shops. I've often seen people get far healthier when they retire and find they have the time to walk to places and be outside, even if the weather here is rarely sunny. Even children don't seem to be outside as much as they used to be.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

We need sensible sun exposure to help protect us from a number of health problems. There is evidence that MS increases the farther north one lives, both in Europe and North America. The Bristol children study has shown that it is those children who spend most time indoors, not those doing close work, who are suffering from myopia. The immune system needs vitamin D.

The more frightened people get, the more sun cream is sold. Could there be a connection?

I think there's quite possibly truth in that - though I have absolutely no data to back that up - but remember that we hardly go outside or even expose ourselves to fresh air compared to earlier generations. Cars and buildings are air-conditioned, even modern houses are very well insulated and have the minimum ventilation permissible quite often. We drive to supermarkets, shopping malls and big DIY stores instead of walking along the high street or even up to the shops. I've often seen people get far healthier when they retire and find they have the time to walk to places and be outside, even if the weather here is rarely sunny. Even children don't seem to be outside as much as they used to be.

 

[William_H]

Advice from an old Ozzie. The experts definitely say that any form of sun tan is just a sign of skin abuse. It does not protect you from further sun damage. Having said that of course we need sun exposure for Vitamin D but not that much.
I always wear long sleeved shirt and long trousers when sailing. Plus gloves and "arab" hat. (over ears and much of the face.) Plus sun glasses. Seems my bare feet are the most exposed. But always cream on feet.
I can only suggest to my UK friends enjoy the warm weather but don't strip off. White clothing is actually cooler than no clothing.
I hope it lasts for you. good luck olewill

 

[alant]

May be technically true, but at the sort of "doses" most people in the UK experience, it's not generally a problem.

Appreciate that things are different elsewhere in the world.

Pete

What's the difference between "technically true" & 'actually happening'?
You might want to visit the department in Southampton General Hospital & see the scale of the problem.
Its an epidemic.

 

[Medic]

An emotive subject.

There is a currently received orthodoxy which approaches the point of saying that there is no such thing as too little sunlight. Often these views are promulgated by those in dermatology departments and it does genuinely reflect what they see. They have real concerns and see real problems relating to sun damaged skin.

This is, however, rather like a car body shop reporting on their views of driving. They only get to see the problems. Anecdote is not evidence. Passion about dangers does not equate to a balanced view. No one disagrees that sunburn is not only uncomfortable but harmful. The debate about more graded exposure to sunlight and developing a tan is less straightforward and should not, in my view, be confused with sunburn.

Local circumstances vary - what makes sense in NZ and Oz does not necessarily apply in a maritime temperate northern climate. Skin type, genetic background and pattern of sun exposure are all important. A blanket view that any skin colour is harmful is, in my view, an over simplistic reduction of the evidence and data. One needs to balance the benefits of sun exposure - psychological, physical and recreational - with the potential harm. We now see children developing rickets due to vitamin D deficiency as a result of almost total sun avoidance due to over vigilant parents trying to do what they are advised.

For a contradictory and thought provoking view I commend this article by Des Spence, published in the British Medical Journal. He may or may not be right, but it does at least make one think and question the current generally held view that all sunlight is harmful.

www.nfkb0.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/melanome.pdf‎

Medic.

 

[prv]

For a contradictory and thought provoking view I commend this article by Des Spence, published in the British Medical Journal.

Fixed link: http://www.nfkb0.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/melanome.pdf

(Yours had picked up some spurious characters on the end)

Pete

 

[alant]

An emotive subject.

There is a currently received orthodoxy which approaches the point of saying that there is no such thing as too little sunlight. Often these views are promulgated by those in dermatology departments and it does genuinely reflect what they see. They have real concerns and see real problems relating to sun damaged skin.

This is, however, rather like a car body shop reporting on their views of driving. They only get to see the problems. Anecdote is not evidence. Passion about dangers does not equate to a balanced view. No one disagrees that sunburn is not only uncomfortable but harmful. The debate about more graded exposure to sunlight and developing a tan is less straightforward and should not, in my view, be confused with sunburn.

Local circumstances vary - what makes sense in NZ and Oz does not necessarily apply in a maritime temperate northern climate. Skin type, genetic background and pattern of sun exposure are all important. A blanket view that any skin colour is harmful is, in my view, an over simplistic reduction of the evidence and data. One needs to balance the benefits of sun exposure - psychological, physical and recreational - with the potential harm. We now see children developing rickets due to vitamin D deficiency as a result of almost total sun avoidance due to over vigilant parents trying to do what they are advised.

For a contradictory and thought provoking view I commend this article by Des Spence, published in the British Medical Journal. He may or may not be right, but it does at least make one think and question the current generally held view that all sunlight is harmful.

www.nfkb0.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/melanome.pdf‎

Medic.

Still doesn't excuse the attempts to look like mahogany!

 

[pmagowan]

In the UK the general consensus is changing. A tan is your bodies defence mechanism against damaging exposure to the suns rays. Your skin releases a pigment which is black in colour and is good at absorbing all wavelengths of light. This prevents the damaging wavelengths from penetrating and causing harm to your cells. Obviously though you need to be exposed to the damaging rays for your body to recognise the problem and start implimenting it's defences.

Why then are we not all black skined? We all started that way!

Well, like most things there are good and bad aspects to it. We require sun exposure to help our bodies to produce vitamin D which is essential to the proper functioning of the body. So, when central african peoples migrated north where the sun was less strong it made sense for the evolutionary change to favour pale skin thus optimising Vit D production in a low sun intensity environment. For that reason some people who have darker skin, due to their ethnic background, when living in the UK will have a problem with Vit D production and will be prone to childhood rickets and other problems.

The general advice is now moving to sensible exposure to sun light. If you go on holiday to the Sahara then cover up, your skin is not designed for it and you will absorb plenty of sunlight even being slabbered in cream and with a hat on. If you stay at home then you should worry less and simply prevent burning the skin, cover up during very hot spells, at mid day etc but do expose yourself to the sun at other times. At the end of the day it is pretty much common sense. The risk of skin cancer is pretty low and the serious forms are really quite rare in the UK. Something to be aware of but not to panick about and lock yourself up in a darkened room.