Studland has it all !

[Searush]

I regulate the speed on my sailing boats all the time - on the cruiser I can reef, hand or simply loose the sheets of variuos sails to slow down. How else could I pick up a mooring under sail? On the dinks it can be a little more difficult as they don't have a simple reefing system, but releasing the kicking strap, increasing twist, or just spilling wind allows me to approach & negotiate moorings, jetties (& beaches with swimmers) quite safely.

As already stated if you want to speed there are plenty of safe & non-annoying places to do it. Inside moorings, anchorages & swimming zones is plain stupid & dangerous.

 

[emsworthy]

I regulate the speed on my sailing boats all the time - on the cruiser I can reef, hand or simply loose the sheets of variuos sails to slow down. How else could I pick up a mooring under sail? On the dinks it can be a little more difficult as they don't have a simple reefing system, but releasing the kicking strap, increasing twist, or just spilling wind allows me to approach & negotiate moorings, jetties (& beaches with swimmers) quite safely.

As already stated if you want to speed there are plenty of safe & non-annoying places to do it. Inside moorings, anchorages & swimming zones is plain stupid & dangerous.

Totally agree! I sail out to my boat on the mooring from our club in various dinghies from a Mirror to a Laser, if I couldn't control my speed well then I'd soon end up with a lot of damage to my own yacht!! Don't see why a Hobie should be any different.

I also agree with Galadriel, if you want to go blasting around in your PWC, rib, ski-boat etc then sod off further out to sea and do it. If it's too rough for you out there then it probably demonstrates the lack of skill and boat handling we all suspect you have in the first place!!

 

[Alcyone]

Speed limit in an anchorage should apply to every type of craft, no exception. It is ridiculous to suggest it should only apply to power vessels.

If there is a swimmer in the water a Hobbie at 15 - 20 knts can kill as easily as a power boat or jet ski can, there is no difference. What the hell makes anyone believe that people sat in a quiet anchorage wants to see a water skiing, jet skiing or Hobbie cat display? There is no shortage of space there. You want to sail your Hobbie, charge around on a jet ski, drag a water skier around or even let the kids 'play' with on the boats poweful ridged tender, then they can all F*** off out to sea where there is more room and they wont cause any nuisance.

Spot on.

 

[OLLIE45]

100kg of plastic travelling at 20 knots powered by the wind has exactly the same kinetic energy as 100kg of plastic travelling at 20 knots powered by an internal combustion engine. How can you justify treating them any differently when it comes to a speed limit? That's just plain stupid.

 

[fireball]

Perhaps the speed limit should apply to all craft, but turn a blind eye to sailing craft who stray over the limit whilst transiting the area if they are obviously trying to keep slow.

After all, one of these Hobies (or many other types of small sailing craft) on a beam reach or downwind - there isn't a lot of scope for de-powering - so 5 knots would be quickly broken - however, this doesn't need to be a huge issue if they are clearly transiting to exit the area or land on the beach.

Actually - thinking about it - I would easily do more than 5 knots in my dinghy downwind undersail without trying - by putting in (or enforcing) the speed limit for sailing dinghies it will effectively prevent people from launching - so some sort of transitory allowance needs to be in place.

 

[Searush]

Perhaps the speed limit should apply to all craft, but turn a blind eye to sailing craft who stray over the limit whilst transiting the area if they are obviously trying to keep slow.

After all, one of these Hobies (or many other types of small sailing craft) on a beam reach or downwind - there isn't a lot of scope for de-powering - so 5 knots would be quickly broken - however, this doesn't need to be a huge issue if they are clearly transiting to exit the area or land on the beach.

Actually - thinking about it - I would easily do more than 5 knots in my dinghy downwind undersail without trying - by putting in (or enforcing) the speed limit for sailing dinghies it will effectively prevent people from launching - so some sort of transitory allowance needs to be in place.

I'm sorry, but you must be a poor sailor if you can't slow down to displacement speed in any boat. Just let the jib sheet fly & release the kicking strap (excessive twist takes all the power off the top of the sail) & slack off the mainsheet & even a Hobie will slow right down. I can even do it on my Laser if taking the kids out for a run & that only has the one sail. Even downwind, releasing the kicking strap allows the boom to lift & significantly depowers the sail.

Try slow sailing sometimes, rather than just blasting up & down on a beam reach as fast as possible. It's like handling a motorbike - so many can't ride slow without dragging their feet along the road & it just displays their incompetence.

 

[fireball]

Try that ddw in a Laser in a F5 .... have a nice swim!

I'm not expert in Hobies (or Cats) - but I have sailed one in a F6/7 - we were doing 10 knots before I managed to get both rudders down - and hadn't unfurled the jib or touched the mainsheet ... oh and there was no kicking strap to ease - so that won't work.

Not being able to sail your boat slowly on a particular course isn't nescisarily poor seamanship - it may be just the physics of the boat and the (current) sailplan. It is also why you'll see many dinghies drop their mains after sailing to approach a tricky lee-shore under jib alone. I do have a little experience in sailing dinghies (and controlling speed) and KNOW that it isn't always possible to sail a set course below a speed limit without change to the sailplan.

I'm not suggesting that the sailing dinghies should be given cart blanche to hurtle across a speed restricted area, but the ability to apply sensible decisions to apply speed restrictions according to vessel/wind speed and apparent actions of the crew (ie F7, empty anchorage, boat under main, but doing 10knots = who cares; F3 kite flying & crew on wire = no no)

 

[Searush]

Fireball,
I have started a fresh thread on this (something for the dinghy sailors). I agree that it is difficult in very strong winds but, as a dinghy cruiser, I probably wouldn't be going dinghy sailing at above F5 unless I had a couple of rolls of the main around the mast.

Looking forward to further discussion on the new thread.

 

[Alcyone]

Try that ddw in a Laser in a F5 .... have a nice swim!

I'm not expert in Hobies (or Cats) - but I have sailed one in a F6/7 - we were doing 10 knots before I managed to get both rudders down - and hadn't unfurled the jib or touched the mainsheet ... oh and there was no kicking strap to ease - so that won't work.

Not being able to sail your boat slowly on a particular course isn't nescisarily poor seamanship - it may be just the physics of the boat and the (current) sailplan. It is also why you'll see many dinghies drop their mains after sailing to approach a tricky lee-shore under jib alone. I do have a little experience in sailing dinghies (and controlling speed) and KNOW that it isn't always possible to sail a set course below a speed limit without change to the sailplan.

I'm not suggesting that the sailing dinghies should be given cart blanche to hurtle across a speed restricted area, but the ability to apply sensible decisions to apply speed restrictions according to vessel/wind speed and apparent actions of the crew (ie F7, empty anchorage, boat under main, but doing 10knots = who cares; F3 kite flying & crew on wire = no no)

Surely if conditions are such that you are unable to keep your speed down in an area of moorings, or where people are swimming, it would be good seamanship to go somewhere a bit further out where you have more room?

 

[fireball]

Surely if conditions are such that you are unable to keep your speed down in an area of moorings, or where people are swimming, it would be good seamanship to go somewhere a bit further out where you have more room?

Er - that was the whole point!

If you launch from a beach where there is a 5 knot limit within 200m from the shore and you're on the windward shore (ie downwind to get out) then you may well not be able to stick to below 5 knots in trying to get "a bit futher out". Whilst this shouldn't mean that sailing dinghies are exempt from the limit, they should (IMHO) be allowed free passage at slowest possible speed and in a safe manner (ie don't sail through a bunch of swimmers at 20 knots!). IMHO the easiest way of achieving this would be to have a 5 knot limit for all craft and only enforce it for those deliberately flouting it.

 

[emsworthy]

I think we're in danger of confusing the practice of transiting the anchorage to get to the playground and using it as a playground itself. I don't think anyone sensible would have issue with a Hobie picking its way through from the beach to get to open water, even if it was exceeding 5 knots. This of course is totally to different blasting up and down on a beam reach weaving between moored boats for the fun of it!

A pwc or ski boat OTOH has absolutley no excuse as they can control their speed at the pull of a lever or flick of a wrist.

 

[fireball]

I think we're in danger of confusing the practice of transiting the anchorage to get to the playground and using it as a playground itself. I don't think anyne sensible would have issue with a Hobie picking its way through from the beach to get to open water, even if it was exceeding 5 knots. This of course is totally different blasting up and down on a beam reach weaving between moored boats for the fun of it!

A pwc or ski boat OTOH has absolutley no excuse as they can control their speed at the pull of a lever or flick of a wrist.

Yah - someone understands me!

 

[fireball]

Fireball,
I have started a fresh thread on this (something for the dinghy sailors). I agree that it is difficult in very strong winds but, as a dinghy cruiser, I probably wouldn't be going dinghy sailing at above F5 unless I had a couple of rolls of the main around the mast.

Looking forward to further discussion on the new thread.

Searush - that's the difference - you may be out to cruise, I would be out to race (or sail the boat hard) so reefing, even if possible would be out of the question as would restrict my sailing to when I could transit beneath the speed limit.

 

[Searush]

Searush - that's the difference - you may be out to cruise, I would be out to race (or sail the boat hard) so reefing, even if possible would be out of the question as would restrict my sailing to when I could transit beneath the speed limit.

I doubt that racing is that much of a problem as the race organisers will arrange for a safe launch & recovery site - wouldn't they? I can't believe that any sane race committee would set up a course thro the anchored boats at Studland on a Bank Holiday.

 

[Alcyone]

Er - that was the whole point!

If you launch from a beach where there is a 5 knot limit within 200m from the shore and you're on the windward shore (ie downwind to get out) then you may well not be able to stick to below 5 knots in trying to get "a bit futher out". Whilst this shouldn't mean that sailing dinghies are exempt from the limit, they should (IMHO) be allowed free passage at slowest possible speed and in a safe manner (ie don't sail through a bunch of swimmers at 20 knots!). IMHO the easiest way of achieving this would be to have a 5 knot limit for all craft and only enforce it for those deliberately flouting it.

Strakerius first mentioned the Hobies, on page one:

"It wasn't just the jet-skiers speeding in the zone. There were half a dozen hobie cats doing a good 20 knots backwards and forwards through the 5 knot limit anchorage too. How would you regulate them? "

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2536756&postcount=7

Doesn't sound to me that he was complaining about them trying to get further out. Could be wrong, of course.

 

[fireball]

I doubt that racing is that much of a problem as the race organisers will arrange for a safe launch & recovery site - wouldn't they? I can't believe that any sane race committee would set up a course thro the anchored boats at Studland on a Bank Holiday.

I've just had a look at the maps & overhead, I can't see a sailing club or find one on Google, however, there is (on the OS map) what I take to be a boat launching point here. So it is reasonable to expect boats to be launched and recovered from that general area.

According to this there is a 6 knot limit within 200m of the shore - fair enough. It doesn't mention access channels for craft or buoyed swimming areas. IMHO it would be reasonable to expect sailing craft to travel at a reduced speed whilst in this limit - preferably under 6 knots, but if not possible then should only be excused if transiting the limited area by the shortest route.

The "anchorage" covers a lot of ground and extends up to 1Nm from the beach - beyond which you are entering the busy Poole Harbour approach channel, frequented by ships and fast cats. Whilst it is not ideal to have fast sailing dinghies & jetski's around anchored vessels it could be argued that the anchored vessels are encroaching on "their space" as much as they are encroaching in the anchorage.

Not having anchored in Studland bay I have no direct knowledge of how crowded it gets and what spaces there are available but it strikes me that once again, it is the few that spoil it for the rest and spark off this sort of discussion.

 

[Alcyone]

I take it there is a slip at Studland, where the dinghies, as well as other craft are launched?

I think the point is the pressure of use at places like this. Clearly there are people who want to sit on the beach, or swim, sailors, dinghy people, divers, motorboaters, jetskiers, conservationists and so on. All have a legitimate right to use the beach and waters and many of whom, sadly, would prefer it was theirs alone.

Is common sense likely to prevail?

 

[fireball]

Is common sense likely to prevail?

Probably not ... they're tagging the seahorses there - I assume so they can catch them on underwater speed cameras ....

 

[Alcyone]

Probably not ... they're tagging the seahorses there - I assume so they can catch them on underwater speed cameras ....

If those seahorses are breaking the speed limit, we should come down on them like a, well, like a 35lb cqr.

 

[FB122]

What ?

Studland certainly has it all lol !
If anyone can get a photo of a sailing dinghy reducing its speed within the 5 knot area then please please post it ..I have this vision of a 505 downing its sails and slowly gliding in on a pair of Y - FRONTS from the mast head attached to the mainsheet ..lol
Of course over this side we'd only use the finest silk french knickers you know lol