Structural integrity
- Thread starter Hot Property
- Start date
Nigelpickin
Well-Known Member
aquatom
Well-Known Member
I’ve seen exactly the same cracking on 4 similar sized boats, these were all the same make and model. These ones cracked where two grp mouldings were joined by only using filler and then gel coat. The repair was quite expensive involving grinding back the gel coat and applying several layers of mat then finishing again with gel coat.
AllanG
Well-Known Member
Can you divulge the make and model of these affected boats?
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Yup, this is a "tertium non datur" scenario, theoretically.
But if I should make an educated guess before your friend confirms the speed and conditions, it would actually be for a combination of both.
I mean, assuming that your friend isn't Gary Sinise who was thinking to play again his famous character of Lieutenant Dan riding the storm, we should expect that he didn't push the envelope of a decent deep V 50 footer above her limits.
Otoh, you said in your op that "the hull slammed a few times", and that begs the question: why?
See, a planning boat that doesn't slam is an oxymoron.
Given enough speed and waves, every P boat slams (Itamas included - sorry PF, but you'd better refrain from insisting on the opposite, because that affects your credibility, as NP effectively underlined).
If sea conditions and route make the boat slam at X knots, the solution is NOT to live with that and hope that the boat doesn't fall apart.
The solution is to slow down, to the point of pootling at D speed and roll like a pig, if necessary.
It won't be a comfortable ride, but surely a safer one, for both the boat and the crew.
Otoh, also a constantly slamming ride ain't exactly comfortable anyway...
After all, even if we should leave aside common (and technical) sense, and stick to CE classification instead, a CE-A boat must be able to withstand F8+ with 13+ feet significant waves.
And there's plenty of CE-A planing boats, nowadays - which is a bit ridiculous, but that's another story.
Anyhow, all of them, bar none, would eventually fall apart if bashed against 13' breaking waves at speed - fact.
Which stands to reason, if you think about it: even ships must adapt their speed and route to sea conditions, sometimes...
That's why I'm envisaging a third case - i.e. that the boat shouldn't have cracked, but the helmsman shouldn't have kept slamming her either.
Good luck to him for getting her properly repaired FoC...!
jfm
Well-Known Member
It doesn't appear to me to be off its tracks.
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
CE weather conditions relate to stability and swamping.
‘Withstand’ means survive and not be swamped.
It does not mean ‘carry on doing 30knts regardless’
‘Withstand’ means survive and not be swamped.
It does not mean ‘carry on doing 30knts regardless’
petem
Well-Known Member
It looks to me like the lid is resting on the rail. Perhaps it's just the photo?
Portofino
Well-Known Member
jfm
Well-Known Member
@petem. That's a silicone rubber lip seal not a rail. It's supposed to squash the lip seal a little bit. It isn't off its tracks. See the clearance each side between the sliding Grp piece and the main roof moulding- thr sliding piece is correctly centred with very little room to move either side.
[2068]
...
I'm not sure, but I think the "rail" that it runs on is the outer rail.
The section that it's resting on could be a flexible lip seal.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Sunseeker had a similar issue with the Portofino 46 and 53
Not the roof , but the radar arches cracked .The weight of them and then stuff added meant in choppy seas they delaminated .
There was a local fix and eventually the factory beefed them up .
But you can,t put a sticker on the dash saying words to the effect “ don,t go fast or the radar arch will be damaged “
Or “ risk of roof fracture above 25 knots “
One should be able to make reasonable way Fwds in headesea s without dropping off the chines , of course slower than normal ,nobodies gonna be flying off 13 ft waves at 40 knots in a 40 ftr ,ideally ( race boats excluded ) it should be the crew / helm that crack -excuse the pun before the boat .Talking ave cruising sports 50 ftr and FB for that matter .
That’s a disappointing outcome to a day out on your boat in a unremarkable conditions for the cruising ground .
Not the roof , but the radar arches cracked .The weight of them and then stuff added meant in choppy seas they delaminated .
There was a local fix and eventually the factory beefed them up .
But you can,t put a sticker on the dash saying words to the effect “ don,t go fast or the radar arch will be damaged “
Or “ risk of roof fracture above 25 knots “
One should be able to make reasonable way Fwds in headesea s without dropping off the chines , of course slower than normal ,nobodies gonna be flying off 13 ft waves at 40 knots in a 40 ftr ,ideally ( race boats excluded ) it should be the crew / helm that crack -excuse the pun before the boat .Talking ave cruising sports 50 ftr and FB for that matter .
That’s a disappointing outcome to a day out on your boat in a unremarkable conditions for the cruising ground .
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Fairenuff, but that's completely different from saying "my boat does not slam".
PowerYachtBlog
Well-Known Member
Old Itama's are different animals to most boats discussed here. Amati's Itama's are the opposite of the modern planning.
Itama's are build around weight, a perfect hull balance with precise engine location, and the rest later. They are fast but are not a fast speed boat.
Some Pershing and even Magnum with surface drives are faster due to Amati's obession with weight in the hull.
The only thing Itama did for efficiency was shaft angle, and his underwater exhaust which he declared might have given a digit or half of it in speed.
Comparing a modern boat, even a new Itama to an original Amati Itama is near to impossible today.
Some ten years ago it was possible with some Italcraft, Rizzardi Top Line series (the 50 is a superb boat), or an Alfamarine.
Most of these are not made anymore, Alfamarine 47,50, and 58 and 60 series are build on order, and Rizzardi have a very nice project for a TL57.
Anyways some twenty years ago I was running on a Fairline Targa 37 in a Force five wind NW, two meter waves occasional 2.5 to three doing the part of the island in between the islands of Gozo and Comino.
I was doing 18/19 knots and really I could not do more and just overtook a new for the time Princess 58 who was doing 16-18.
An old Itama 45 passes by us at about I would guess 26 to 28 knots and if you just looked at the boat you would have thought the sea was flat.
Itama's are build around weight, a perfect hull balance with precise engine location, and the rest later. They are fast but are not a fast speed boat.
Some Pershing and even Magnum with surface drives are faster due to Amati's obession with weight in the hull.
The only thing Itama did for efficiency was shaft angle, and his underwater exhaust which he declared might have given a digit or half of it in speed.
Comparing a modern boat, even a new Itama to an original Amati Itama is near to impossible today.
Some ten years ago it was possible with some Italcraft, Rizzardi Top Line series (the 50 is a superb boat), or an Alfamarine.
Most of these are not made anymore, Alfamarine 47,50, and 58 and 60 series are build on order, and Rizzardi have a very nice project for a TL57.
Anyways some twenty years ago I was running on a Fairline Targa 37 in a Force five wind NW, two meter waves occasional 2.5 to three doing the part of the island in between the islands of Gozo and Comino.
I was doing 18/19 knots and really I could not do more and just overtook a new for the time Princess 58 who was doing 16-18.
An old Itama 45 passes by us at about I would guess 26 to 28 knots and if you just looked at the boat you would have thought the sea was flat.
Hot Property
Well-Known Member
Update from friend:-
Weather was calm at the Portland Race. Speed 18 knots. hit the standing waves - took the inshore route close to the rocks.
Further photo added
Friend now thinks the splitting is caused by the sunroof hitting the frame - there is an inflatable seal which supports the roof panel and seals it from water ingress..
Weather was calm at the Portland Race. Speed 18 knots. hit the standing waves - took the inshore route close to the rocks.
Further photo added
Friend now thinks the splitting is caused by the sunroof hitting the frame - there is an inflatable seal which supports the roof panel and seals it from water ingress..
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Nigelpickin
Well-Known Member
I called that as the issue because I’ve seen it before, albeit on a different boat - and not a Prestige would you believe! Personally speaking - I would suggest you pull the thread, get your friend to provide an evidence based report to the dealer and that they commission a survey of the boat. If it’s out of the water get the whole boat checked over for cracks/delamination.
If they don’t play ball then your friend is in a strong position (assuming they have a 2 years warranty on the hull).
The long way round is - should the dealer not be obliging, your mate makes an insurance claim and pound to a pinch of salt that will have the insurer chasing the builder/dealer for the cost.
But I’d keep the conversation private until there is an acceptable outcome....
All imho of course and there are far better than me to offer clinical advice on here.
And tell him to buy an ITAMA next time
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Hot Property
Well-Known Member
I called that as the issue because I’ve seen it before, albeit on a different boat - and not a Prestige would you believe! Personally speaking - I would suggest you pull the thread, get your friend to provide an evidenced based report to the dealer and that they commission a survey of the boat. If it’s out of the water get the whole boat checked over for cracks/delamination.
If they don’t play ball then your friend is in a strong position (assuming they have a 2 years warranty on the hull).
The long way round is - should the dealer not be obliging, your mate makes an insurance claim and pound to a pinch of salt that will have the insurer chasing the builder/dealer for the cost.
But I’d keep the conversation private until there is an acceptable outcome....
All imho of course and there are far better than me to offer clinical advice on here.
And tell him to buy an ITAMA next time
I have kept it private - No name, boat identifier etc... but I take your point anyway.