Storm Jibs Fitted over Roller Headsails - are they seamanlike?

[alant]

Why, when a boat is fitted with a roller headsail, is it thought seamanlike when in high wind conditions,

(1) to have to totally unroll the genoa, in order to drop it on deck, thus enabling same foil to be freed to hoist a storm jib?

(2) to have a storm jib hoisted over the rolled up genoa, since in many cases friction due to the wrap around tapes/ties/foam, make a quick & simple hoist almost impossible! Also the existing sheets interfere.

Surely storm sails should be able to be deployed fairly safely & simply, under 'extreme' conditions.

On more than one occasion recently, on sailing school boats, both the above methods were considered appropriate. In several cases, the sails in question, had never been taken out of their bags & ever deployed- even for practice! These boats had been surveyed & ok'd for use by an RYA surveyor, for use by the sailing schools in question.

Or am I just being picky? /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[homa]

I would tend to agree with you.
That's why I have a separate inner forstay that can be rigged in a couple of minutes. The working jib or storm jib is then hanked on this and the sail hoisted using the spinnaker halyard.

 

[Talbot]

the storm sail to fit over the rolled up genoa is a sop to meet code, and IMHO totally impractical indeed I would go so far as to say that I consider it a dangerous concept due to the difficulty of rigging it, and thus extending the time required up the pointy end in bad conditions.

I would recommend a storm sail with its own wire hauled up tight on a spectra halliard, or the best solution, a secondary forestay so that you can hank on a storm sail. That also then allows a second large genoa to be rigged for trade wind sailing!

 

[Guest]

[ QUOTE ]
I would recommend a storm sail with its own wire hauled up tight on a spectra halliard, or the best solution, a secondary forestay so that you can hank on a storm sail.

[/ QUOTE ]
Or even both. I mean, it's good to have the secondary forestay to help with hoisting. Once up, you need the Spectra halyard to keep luff tension, especially as it's hard to get a removeable forestay as tight as a permanent one.

 

[Woodentop]

The One That Fits Over Is Pants

There is an apparently good idea of a double triangle which folds around the rolled up genoa.

A good point is that it stops the furled sail coming loose.

The bad point is that while it is very easy to rig while moored on a pontoon on a quiet day, it is a total beast to rig on a bouncy foredeck when you decide the wind has gone from "tiny rolled up genoa" to "get the storm jib out". A non-viable option.

The best one I saw had its own wire, normally stowed on the front of the mast but became a "baby stay" when deployed (And I did, and it worked, and it could be done in "sub-optimal conditions").

 

[TigaWave]

The codeing...
25.1 Efficient storm sails should be carried which are capable of taking the vessel to windward in heavy weather.
is open to interpretation.

If you have to do it yourself, a hanked on baged ready to hoist sail is what I have found is best. One quick trip to the foredeck and everything else could be done from the cockpit. Essential to be able to heav to, as well as go to wind in a blow.

 

[alant]

The codeing...
25.1 Efficient storm sails should be carried which are capable of taking the vessel to windward in heavy weather.
is open to interpretation.
___________________________________________________

Even if this is open to interpretation, safety on a foredeck surely isn't!

I am talking about people 'in training', & their safety is paramount. I use methods (like all I hope) which keep peoples presence on a coachroof or foredeck to a minimum. Certainly don't want a system which is difficult, when even rigging on the pontoon. One response from one schools Chief Instructor, when discussing the setup on their boat, was to rig before leaving! Yes could be done that way, but I want to be able to safely rig at sea!

 

[peteandthira]

I have one of those wrap around jobs and it is not difficult to deploy. It requires a trip to the pulpit to attach the sail to our anchor roller and the top end to a spare halyard. Thread the sheets and retire to the cockpit. The sail is still in its bag at this stage. Once in the cockpit, haul the halyard up on the winch and out pops the sail, self-velcroing as the wind fills it.

Personally I think its safer than unrolling the genoa and dropping it. We have tried it in f7 gusting f8 and can make decent progress upwind at a comfy 7kts.

Pops

 

[PeteMylett]

Given that the rolled headsail is kept in place by the sheets being wrapped around it, how do folks control the storm jib of either sort? i suppose the headsail could be kept secure using sail ties, but how secure?

Presumably we need another set of sheets with the existing headsail sheets still in place? How does one get the new set through the genoa cars etc?

Also I guess the headsail sheets will need to be made off pretty securely, especially given the conditions in which a storm jib is deployed in the first place?

Clearly, I'm confused!

 

[Guest]

Yup, separate sets of sheets. You wouldn't want to be perched on the bow trying to reach up to untie a jammed bowline way above your head in nasty conditions anyway.

A removeable forestay probably isn't going to be absolutely parallel to the permanent forestay (it needs to be led pretty much to the top of the mast, otherwise you'd need running backstays to counterbalance it), which means the sheeting position is going to be completely different. In my set-up the sheets need to be led back to the stern quarters, where the spinnaker sheet blocks are kept. The spinnaker sheet blocks are overspecified for just this reason.

When setting off on a longish/challenging trip, everything is set up beforehand - innerforestay rigged with No.4 genoa lashed to the bottom of it, and sheets already attached and brought back to the cockpit. When the [--word removed--] hits the fan, all that has to be done is roll the roller genny away, attach Spectra halyard to No. 4 and undo lashings, and hoist away. It sets beautifully.