Storing an inner forestay when not in use

[blue_sky]

My boat has an inner forestay (for use by a storm jib - so I don't want to remove it entirely) that seriously gets in the way when tacking, so it's unclipped and taken to the toe-rail. The problem with that is that the toe-rail is considerably closer than the pad-eye on the foredeck meaning there is a lot of slack, and this results in and interesting use of string, and a cat's cradle arrangement to avoid kinking the stay be still keeping it out of the way - ugly is an understatement, and it certainly isn't seaman-like.

I've had the yard quote for replacement including a lever (currently it's clevis pinned and split-pinned - which will be fun in a blow). They suggest a shorter stay that would attach to a new pad-eye to be installed at the mast, and a strop between the deck pad-eye and the lever for when it's to be used. For all this I've been quoted a lot more than I can afford.

Can anyone suggest a cheap(ish) and seaman-like alternative?

--
Justin C, by the sea.
Trintella 1a, 'Kooshty'

 

[uxb]

I saw a nice couple of clips made out of some kind of semi hard plastic (like mast wedge material) fitted to the front of the upper and lower spreaders. They were shaped kind of like the letter 'R' so that you could pull the wire into the bottom leg opening it out, the loop at the top then snapped shut holding the wire in place. You fed the wire in from the outboard side.
At the base of the mast was a stainless steel guide - imagine a section of bicycle wheel without the tyre- that led the wire to an eye bolt in the deck where the forestay lever was clipped on.

Not a very good description of a very neat solution I'm afraid...Maybe someone will understand my rambling and post a picture.

 

[merlin3688]

Can you not just fit in a link so that when it goes to the toe rail it an be removed to the correct length, not sure if this makes sense but removing the link would allow the forestay to be the correct length to the toe rail. Seasure do a good quick release fitting but it is not cheap.

 

[Salty John]

You need an articulating joint at the appropriate distance from the deck fitting - 1m or 1.5m? You can buy a screw type eye and a screw type fork to make the joint - any rigging supplier will have them, or Plastimo have them, product range 46366 to 46365, I think.
Then you can secure the stay at the mast base or at the rail, folding the lower section up against the 'standing part'.
At the deck fitting you can have either a hyfield lever or a turnbuckle (as I did) with a fold away handle to crank it down tight. Mine secured at a bow fitting which had additional holes slightly aft of the forestay attachment point for this purpose.
I'm assuming that your inner forestay starts at no lower than 0.5m from the masthead, so you don't need additional support for the mast in the form of runners.
The inner forestay arrangement on my Jeanneau 32 was as described and functioned perfectly, the only part of the boat, apart from the long canvas baguette holder in the galley, that did.

 

[doug748]

Your tensioning device could be one of the expensive variety or improvised from a large secondhand stainless turnbuckle. Cut down the inner forestay to suit and attach with a Stalock terminal.

This will take maybe a foot out of the forestay overall length, such that the stalock will not reach the deck by the shrouds. Pick a suitable place for a U bolt, take care that the wire will not foul the shrouds or crosstrees, when attached to the said U bolt.

Lash (a short distance from the inner end) your tensioning device down to the U bolt. Lifting the outer end of the device will now act as a lever and you can attach it by lashings it to a convienient nearby rigging screw. Adjust the angle/tension to your requirements, but dont pull the mast out of column and make sure that the masthead attachment can cope with the angle of pull from amidships.

PS
Very much as Salty John has said really!

 

[William_H]

Inner forestay stowage

You want to stow the inner forestay either along the front of the mast or down paralllel to cap shroud to the toe rail. Either way demands that for the inner forestay to be tight when stowed it be shorter than it need be to meet the deck when in use.
You can shorten the inner forestay and extend the fitting on the bow/deck. A highfield lever or turnscrew will both enable the inner forestay to be tensioned and allow it to be shortened.
Or you could attach a bull dog clamp (U bolt clamp) to the inner forestay at a point near the bottom to which you clamp another wire lanyard with eye which can be attached to the toe rail or base of mast. This will leave a section of inner forestay a couple of foot or less I imagine laying on the deck.
This clamp could impede the use of jib hanks as they won't be able to slide past the clamp. If the clamp is not too far above the bottom of the inner forestay this may not matter. Only checking insitu will show that.
So much depends on how much shorter the inner forestay must be to be tight in stowage. good luck olewill

 

[Ariadne]

I had the same problem for years and tried a wide variety of ways to store it and be able to fit when needed. When I needed it, it was too rough to get forward and set it!

So I've given in and fitted it permantly now instead. Yes, it's a pain tacking the big genoa, but on the plus side I can now fly a loverly Yankee when the wind is over 20kts as it has a better shape than the furling genoa, and it's a doddle to fly the storm jib when needed.

Have a think about it.

 

[caerolusmagnus]

Inner forestay comments

In process of renovating Ohlson 38. I am arranging an inner forestay. we moved the current inner stay from a shackle at the masthead to location on a tang some 20mm lower than masthead crane and will require no running backstays. (I think). The current inner stay ends down to about 4ft above the deck and it had a block and tackle which can't get tension.

So am arranging a Norseman type terminal on the end of stay with extension stay and Highfield lever to the deck which will need reinforcement and flange to spread the load down into the anchor locker bulkhead.

I like the idea of leaving the stay 'permanently' set up with a new inner staysail. I would prefer to have such sail hanked on for flexibility. Only sailed her for 5 hours last season and it was great. But had the feeling that the boat is sensitive to sail area for best trim and the staysail would have good use when the rolled Genoa is no longer efficient.

So I have to ensure I can have the sail bent on and sitting bagged on the deck, to allow the sail with big sail hanks (if I can get them) to ride up over the Norseman, or if I have to I would set up large stainless rings un the stay, large enough to slide up over the Norseman and the hanks would have been clipped to these rings (3i is a good supplier). The current storm jib has regular hanks so it would need the rings I think to ensure travel over the Norseman.

Will put a ring bolt on the deck near the mast (riggers recommendation) to store the stay as an option but I have the feeling the usual hassles of preventing it slapping on the mast would be a problem. Comments?
Regards to Salty John. Thanks for the three Metz aerials.

 

[BabaYaga]

My boat has an inner forestay (for use by a storm jib - so I don't want to remove it entirely) that seriously gets in the way when tacking, so it's unclipped and taken to the toe-rail. The problem with that is that the toe-rail is considerably closer than the pad-eye on the foredeck meaning there is a lot of slack, and this results in and interesting use of string, and a cat's cradle arrangement to avoid kinking the stay be still keeping it out of the way - ugly is an understatement, and it certainly isn't seaman-like.

I've had the yard quote for replacement including a lever (currently it's clevis pinned and split-pinned - which will be fun in a blow). They suggest a shorter stay that would attach to a new pad-eye to be installed at the mast, and a strop between the deck pad-eye and the lever for when it's to be used. For all this I've been quoted a lot more than I can afford.

Can anyone suggest a cheap(ish) and seaman-like alternative?

It is a bit unclear to me what you currently use to tension the stay. Also by how much it is too long.
For my part I use a turnbuckle with fold away handles, which is reasonably cheap but probably a little slower in operation compared to a highfield lever.
When parked the stay is lashed by the base of the cap shroud, the turnbuckle folded away 90 degrees (see picture). In addition I use the type of fitting mentioned in post no 2 to protect the front of the spreader (Seldén supply these in stainless steel, as well as the "bicycle rim" type of fitting also mentioned).
I find my parking system works pretty well, although it is sometimes difficult to get the stay tight enough in the parked position. Therefore I have added a piece of bungy cord between the parked stay and the forward lower shroud in order to take up any slack.
The length of a turnbuckle might not be enoungh to shorten your stay sufficiently, but my advice would be to make any joint in the stay as low as possible, to avoid the problem mentioned by William H.
Good luck.
http://www.ybw.com/forums/images/attach/jpg.gif

 

[blue_sky]

I've given in and fitted it permantly now instead. Yes, it's a pain tacking the big genoa, but on the plus side I can now fly a loverly Yankee when the wind is over 20kts as it has a better shape than the furling genoa, and it's a doddle to fly the storm jib when needed.

Have a think about it.

I have thought about it, and though I don't race I don't think I can live with furling the genoa before each tack. And should I, for some reason, need to tack quickly, then that's quite a hindrance. The deck attachment isn't far enough aft of the forestay, if it was, say, half way I believe the gap would be enough that I'd not need to completely furl the genoa but it's only about a foot back.

However, a more efficient headsail in stronger wind is a nice idea... that's got me thinking!

Thanks for the suggestion.

--
Justin C, by the sea.
Trintella 1a, 'Kooshty'

 

[blue_sky]

It is a bit unclear to me what you currently use to tension the stay. Also by how much it is too long.

It's just a bottle screw.

For my part I use a turnbuckle with fold away handles, which is reasonably cheap but probably a little slower in operation compared to a highfield lever.
When parked the stay is lashed by the base of the cap shroud, the turnbuckle folded away 90 degrees (see picture). In addition I use the type of fitting mentioned in post no 2 to protect the front of the spreader (Seldén supply these in stainless steel, as well as the "bicycle rim" type of fitting also mentioned).
I find my parking system works pretty well, although it is sometimes difficult to get the stay tight enough in the parked position. Therefore I have added a piece of bungy cord between the parked stay and the forward lower shroud in order to take up any slack.
The length of a turnbuckle might not be enoungh to shorten your stay sufficiently, but my advice would be to make any joint in the stay as low as possible, to avoid the problem mentioned by William H.
Good luck.

The picture helped a lot, I think it's similar to what others have suggested. I'll have to measure how much spare I have, and also the length of a highfield lever and see if I can have a similar arrangement. I don't think I'd have got it without the photo.

Thanks to all who have replied.

--
Justin C, by the sea.
Trintella 1a, 'Kooshty'