Stolen Boat Vs Insurance?

[golden14]

Having established where my stolen boat was located, (Kemps Quay, Southampton -"If you've come about the Falcon 23 then it's all above board" - funny comment to come out with before I'd even spoken a word, most odd in a boatyard with 200+ boats don't you think???
My insurance broker tells me a boat can only be classed as stolen if the keys are physically taken from you.........NO JOKE!

 

[SAWDOC]

...and presumably you replied its not my keys that were stolen its my bleedin boat!!

If it were a car, would different critiria apply?

 

[golden14]

Sawdoc, Very good point but one that UK marine insurers seem to ignore, my insurance broker (who shall remain nameless) refused to even send me a form out stating that unless the keys had been physically removed from my person then the boat would not be classed as stolen...All I would say to anyone out there reading this thinking 'what an idiot' is check with your insurance company what they define 'theft' as. For note I had a GPS moving map removed from the boat 5 years back - where was it at the time I hear you ask? Cowes yacht haven, right next to the stairs going upto the office, under 2 security lights and covered by 2 CCTV cameras less than 15ft away...Guess that's why the Yahct haven now finally has some half decent security, that said the police stated that it was almost certainly carried out by visiting yachtsmen.

 

[reginaldon]

Has anyone checked this out - I can't, I only have 3rd party cover.

 

[neil_s]

Seems we all need to make sure we leave a spare set on board?

neil

 

[lenseman]

I think that 'golden14' is a troll.

Look back at the message and thread he started on 27 June 2008 regarding this theft. Many, many people tried to help and at the time he could have stood a very good chance of recovering his boat but alas he did nothing about it at the time and now is trying the insurance route!

I think that the insurance company can see through his claim and hence they are not playing ball.

I tried many times on Yahoo Messenger and via email and PM but he never responded. I even tried his mobile but he had given me an incorrect number and I wrote telling him this also. Still never a reply.

I am sorry, in my book, 'golden14' does not deserve any help.

 

[luxuryat]

Here the conclusion is, To steal a boat, we just need to steal the keys. That's it. The boat is yours if you steal the keys.

 

[golden14]

I am not a 'troll' whatever that may be! I did take help from people at the time many of whom offered comments far more helpful than you have just done. I merely passed on more info on my case as basically I was told unless the keys are physically stolen from you that if your boat disappears you may not be covered for theft! Now if you don't think people on this forum should not be made aware of the possibility they might not actually be covered in such an instance then sorry thats just a 'nuts' mindset.
Did it occur to you that I tried the insure route at the time and not a year later? No clearly you didn't think of that did you?
You think they can see through my claim? For what? The police put out a nationwide arrest warrant for the guy!!! - What? You think my insurance company saw through the police report that clearly stated they were classing it as stolen and he was wanted on a nationwide basis? what you don't think that's serious

One day I hope the same happens to you then you will see how hard it is 'muppet' - stop playing God when you don't know all the facts!
I await the next petty response

 

[lenseman]

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Pete7]

So if you know were your boat is and you are sure you still own it, why don't you just go and get it?

However there is always two sides to a story, be interesting to hear what the other side have to say.

Pete

 

[philwebb]

Bl--dy Hell I had never realised that boat theft cover was so poor. I am going to check my cover asap. There should be a campaign to ensure
that we get the cover that we are paying for. I am also appalled that the police seem unable to take action in the face of what seems to be staightforward theft.

 

[dt4134]

Check your insurance. It's quite likely that there's a clause that excludes theft by trick or deception. I get the impression that the OP handed over the keys in exchange for a rubber cheque and the insurance company considered that deception. To be honest, I guess making an insurance claim in those circumstances wouldn't be the first resort.

It doesn't mean that insurance is worthless, just that you should take care when selling or loaning out the boat.

 

[oceanpilgrim]

more reson to fit a tracker,i bought mine for £130.00 on e-bay it works great,lets me know by phone if it moves from it's mooring,can track it real time lat/long/speed,can even phone it back an listen in via the micraphone,if you dont get any joy from the police get it back your self

 

[minho]

That's not fair! It should be considered stolen when the boat is lost even the keys are with you.

 

[fireball]

It is - well - it is for all the insurance policies I've ever held for a boat ... Golden14 is clearly not giving the whole truth ...

 

[duncanmack]

I've been following this saga with some interest. I glean from all the stuff posted that this was the likely scenario....

"Pal" gave cheque to Golden14 as payment and took boat away. Cheque bounced.

---------

If this was the case then the insurance company will not entertain any claim for theft.



Dunno about England, but in Scotland the "Pal" has good title to the boat. I don't think that contract law is so very different in this case.

Consideration (the cheque) passed between the parties so the contract is made. The fact that the cheque was subsequently duff is a different matter. But it isn't theft.

Been "involved" in a similar scenario years ago. I was the buyer of a car from a guy who, it turned out, had paid for it with a stolen chequebook. The police said I had bought a stolen car and were going to sieze it from the person to whom I'd sold it (I had sold it on before the stushie started) but my lawyer corrected them - if they siezed it then they would be unlawfully depriving the legal owner of their rights to it. I had got good title and the original owner had no redress against me or the subsequent owner of the car . He would have to seek redress from the man who had given him a bad cheque, ie get him to make good the funds represented by the duff cheque. The police retreated very quickly after that.
So it's not only caveat emptor, but caveat vendor. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

It was an eye-opener for me I can tell you.

 

[No Regrets]

Having used one of those 'Awful Broker' types for my last four vessels, I have yet to experience such excitement.

I can't believe anybody clever enough earn enough money to purchase a significant object like a Boat is foolish enough to accept uncleared funds for it though /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[cyberpunx]

tut tut

i also believe a fool and there money/boat car/more money are easily parted.
touche '

 

[TAS12]

Not so long ago, my motor home was stolen. The insurers decided that it was all to convenient , therefore put us through investigation. The insurers decided that because the police had taken an allegation of theft from me and had not investigated , it was still only an allegation and not proven stolen. The insurers agents who investigate one namely Brown Sword use tactics which are totally disgusting, telephone interviews which get missrepresnted etc etc.
The motor home was worth £40,000 which the insurers did not want to pay out. To recover this , we took it upon our selves to find the dam thing. We traced it down in Latvia beleive it or not. Once recovered forced the insurers to bring it back. They complied with this , but then refused to pay for the damage , as the theives were converting it to left hand drive.
It worries me at the moment , especially the south east. I do beleive there is too much crime for the police to handle now, therefore nothing will ever get investigated , therefore it dose give the insurers one big get out . If the Police leave your report as an allegation , the insurers can quite easily walk away from this.
One thing for all vessels i think would eleviate some risk , install the car alarm with a proximaty funstion. There are plenty out there now that will even text you when there is reason too. This is also a receipt that can help prove the theft. Time date etc when you had some form of intruder aboard.
The other i do beleive the boat yards are to blame, the majority ignore broken mooring lines , kids on board messing around, perhaps if we all put pressure on the yards then security would improve. We entrust them with our vessels in good faith , that their morrings and equipment will keep safe , token barriers and out of date cctv is just not good enough in these days. Even if the police catch a theif, for instance , if they find finger prints of that person on the outside of your vessel they will not consider prosecuting if there are none on the inside, the theif could claim he was curious or some other lame excuse, the police will not do a thing. There are so many get outs for them now , we really are not protected in any way, therefore the onus is on us now, as most of us live too far away from our boats the onus should be on the yards to protect our property , after all we pay them enough dont we ?
Not so long ago, i had children on board during a week day, the yard was aware of their antics but did nothing, when i asked , the answer, they did not want reprisals on themselves in the yard, tell me is this what we pay for. Guaranteed most yards are the same.

 

[Norman_E]

Golden14, calling anybody a muppet will gain you no sympathy here. It is of course completely untrue to say that your keys have to be stolen from you for your boat to be classed as stolen. If someone simply breaks in to your boat and takes it, without having any keys then any insurance company is likely to consider that to be stealing, and treat your claim accordingly. Where they will not entertain a theft claim is the situation where you give someone the keys, (or in some cases simply leave them where the "thief" can pick them up). If you give someone the keys because they are buying the boat, then they fail to pay you, that does not constitute theft for insurance purposes because you allowed the "buyer" to take the boat, and all you have is a civil claim against the "buyer".