Stinky heads-sulphur smell

[philwebb]

I changed the boat toilet from the original RM69 to a new Jabsco this year. I changed the
pipework to the manufacturers recommendation of anti-siphon loops. The first time the heads was used on any trip subsequently there was an overpowering sulphury smell.
I have now taken off the anti-siphon loops, thinking that they were harbouring some sort of bacteria, however the problem is still there. Any suggestions? should I fit an in line deodorizer? Why didn't my previous loo do this? I fitted new pipes of the right type by the
way.

 

[john_morris_uk]

This has been debated loads of times and some people will post that the answer is to flush with fresh water.

This will work, but the easier answer is to flush the toilet more thoroughly when you leave the boat! The pump on the Jabsco is notorious for allowing a tiny bit of effluent past it and therefore into the inlet side. Its this that decays and produces the smell when you come back on board after a while.

Pump thoroughly means twenty or thirty good pumps; not the two or three that some guests on our boat seem to think is adequate.

 

[Dockhead]

I always heard it's the sea life in sea water which dies and stinks, on the inlet side.

When we leave the boat our routine is this:

We always close the inlet seacock, set the loo on "dry", pump fresh water and Harpic through and let stand for a couple of hours. Then flush with a lot of fresh water (shower head reaches to the loo to make this easy) and close the drain sea cock.

So the drain side of the system is squeaky clean. But the intake side is still full of sea water, and we still get that dead critter stink when we come back. It disappears after opening sea cocks and pumping a lot of sea water through. Never seemed to us like a big problem.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I always heard it's the sea life in sea water which dies and stinks, on the inlet side.

When we leave the boat our routine is this:

We always close the inlet seacock, set the loo on "dry", pump fresh water and Harpic through and let stand for a couple of hours. Then flush with a lot of fresh water (shower head reaches to the loo to make this easy) and close the drain sea cock.

So the drain side of the system is squeaky clean. But the intake side is still full of sea water, and we still get that dead critter stink when we come back. It disappears after opening sea cocks and pumping a lot of sea water through. Never seemed to us like a big problem.

One of our most respected forumites did some conclusive experiments with seawater and proved that what you are suggesting is NOT the case. Its effluent leaking back through the seals that causes the problem and as we have discovered on our own boat, more efficient and enthusiastic pumping solves it.

 

[charles_reed]

The smell is of hydrogen sulphide, produced by very live and healthy anaerobic bacteria.

Once infected it's almost impossible to be rid of, if on the input side.

I use bleach - it works after a fashion - but the only answer is to pump hard when first you return to the boat, holding your breath.

Once the toilet is in regular use, I think you'll find the problem goes away.

 

[vyv_cox]

John Morris has it exactly right. The flap valves and piston seals on most sea toilets are very inefficient and it is inevitable that some foul water from below the piston will pass above it, and hence through the valve into the inlet water. Flushing more thoroughly will certainly help but we had marked success by not using the 'bowl empty' function. I believe that it is far more difficult for sewage to pass the piston if there is water above it than if there is air. If you must use 'bowl empty' then give it a couple of pumps on 'flush' after every use.

 

[BoyBlue49]

Stinky heads

I suggest you replace the anti syphon loops unless you and your crew religiously shut both sea cocks each time the heads are used, I would find that a bit of a chore and a crew member will be bound to forget until the cabin floor floats out of the companion way.

We always pump the flush at least 20 times to make sure all waste has left the boat. Some skippers supply a bag for paper but if you use high quality toilet paper there should not be a problem with blockage.

The old rule of "they who block it mend it" usually concentrates the mind of any crew member.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I suggest you replace the anti syphon loops unless you and your crew religiously shut both sea cocks each time the heads are used, I would find that a bit of a chore and a crew member will be bound to forget until the cabin floor floats out of the companion way.

We always pump the flush at least 20 times to make sure all waste has left the boat. Some skippers supply a bag for paper but if you use high quality toilet paper there should not be a problem with blockage.

The old rule of "they who block it mend it" usually concentrates the mind of any crew member.

I am not sure what you are going to achieve with either changing the pipework OR closing the seacocks (except that if the levels are wrong, closing the seacock might be a safer and more sensible thing to do?)

Assuming that there is no necessity to shut the sea-cock, then all you are doing is ensuring that the effluent contaminated water is contained in the pipework.

If you wipe a rag on the pipework and there is no smell on the rag afterwords, then the pipework is fine - and anyway I seem to rmember that the OP said that he'd already renewed the pipework?

 

[misterg]

I always heard it's the sea life in sea water which dies and stinks, on the inlet side....

One of our most respected forumites did some conclusive experiments with seawater and proved that what you are suggesting is NOT the case....

I begged to differ with Vyv_Cox at the time - I think he proved that it wasn't the case, but not that it couldn't be the case. (In fact it's reminded me that I said I'd copy his experiment with some Irish Sea water...)

At any rate, a 100% cure for us was to flush all the pipework with fresh water when leaving the boat. This worked when renewing the pipework and toilet didn't, despite flushing through with 20-30 strokes of the pump before leaving. (there's ~2.5m of pipe between the toilet outlet and the through-hull).

The above is achieved by tee-ing the flushing water inlet into the heads sink drain, immediately after the sink seacock. On leaving the boat, the sink seacock is closed first, and the basin filled with water (it can't drain as the seacock is closed). Pumping the heads draws this water through (less than 1/2 a bucket full). Result = ZERO smell when first pumping the heads, even after several weeks.

At all other times the toilet draws sea-water as normal.

YMMV.

Andy

 

[Skysail]

Iif you use high quality toilet paper there should not be a problem with blockage.

Fully agree with 20+ pump strokes, but what do you mean by high quality paper? SWMBO describes the soluble stuff as very low quality! But no blockage yet....

 

[vyv_cox]

I begged to differ with Vyv_Cox at the time - I think he proved that it wasn't the case, but not that it couldn't be the case. (In fact it's reminded me that I said I'd copy his experiment with some Irish Sea water...)

I'd love to see the results with Irish Sea water. I did repeat the experiment with water collected in harbours in Kefalonia, not ones obviously polluted with sewage, it must be said. Again, I didn't find any H2S smells.

I suspect that what you are doing supports what I said in an earlier post. The water in your sink is at a higher head than the seawater that normally fills the toilet. If a toilet is at or above sea level there will be a negative pressure above the piston on the downstroke, but a positive one below it. In your case there will be a positive pressure on the suction side, hence sewage is not drawn upwards.

It would be very interesting to see what happened if you filled your sink with seawater and did the same thing. I await the results with interest!

 

[KellysEye]

>Fully agree with 20+ pump strokes

Me too, that's the way.

 

[BoyBlue49]

Sea cocks

TO john morris

Closing the sea cocks when sailing stops the boat filling with water, a very annoying experience I would think.

May be you are a MOBO so would not know that when a sailing yacht leans to wind the heads can become below the water line and can fill the boat unless there is a swan neck in the pipe to stop syphoning.

Sea cocks should be closed anyway when sailing but mistakes happen.

We use Andrex Shea, very soft on the parts that need it and dissolve well.

 

[vyv_cox]

TO john morris

Closing the sea cocks when sailing stops the boat filling with water, a very annoying experience I would think.

May be you are a MOBO so would not know that when a sailing yacht leans to wind the heads can become below the water line and can fill the boat unless there is a swan neck in the pipe to stop syphoning.

Sea cocks should be closed anyway when sailing but mistakes happen.

We use Andrex Shea, very soft on the parts that need it and dissolve well.

I open all my seacocks in April and close them when ashore in October to stop insects getting in during the winter. My boat is a sailing boat, heavily used, and in my ownership in the past 15 years it has never filled with water. There is a swan neck in the toilet discharge but not in the suction, just as Sadler made it.

Maybe you are a yachtsman who thinks he knows too much.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Some Ideas From The Oilfield

If you had a bad "rotten egg" smell, say from a holding tank, you can neutralise the H2S by raising the ph of any flushing water above 11, considering all other matters. Soak and then pump away.

Zinc Carbonate will stop the process that produces the H2S but I have no idea where you can get it in domestic quantities.

Clean fresh water as has been suggested also works simply by removing the contaminated water.

 

[BoyBlue49]

VYV COX

So much aggression ?????????

I was replying to john morris previous post, I too sail with open sea cocks. The reply centred around the original poster who had no swan necks in his pipes if you remember.

Good sailing to you and fair winds.

I certainly do not know too much.

 

[V1701]

Fully agree with 20+ pump strokes, but what do you mean by high quality paper? SWMBO describes the soluble stuff as very low quality! But no blockage yet....

I don't flush any paper through mine, have fixed a small plastic fliptop bin for it, but my understanding as well is that the cheapest toilet paper you can buy is the one that disintegrates best. Also find not using the empty function stops the sulphur smell...

 

[misterg]

I await the results with interest!

I will try it and see

Andy

 

[Dipper]

Mine smelt like that for the previous two seasons. This year it doesn't. The only thing that's changed is that I flush some vegetable oil down the heads after each use. Whether the change is because the valves work better when lubricated or whether it is a complete coincidence I don't know.

 

[upthesolent]

The smell is of hydrogen sulphide, produced by very live and healthy anaerobic bacteria.

Once infected it's almost impossible to be rid of, if on the input side.

I use bleach - it works after a fashion - but the only answer is to pump hard when first you return to the boat, holding your breath.

Once the toilet is in regular use, I think you'll find the problem goes away.

We too are experiencing this problem. However, we have only used our heads for a pee and nothing else! Does our fit and healthy friend, anaerobic bacteria, live in both environments?

Bleach:- is that safe to use on a sea loo?